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I wonder if people ever read the legal stuff in sponsored challenges

"For all Designs submitted for use by Threadless.com, you acknowledge that the Design is considered a work-for-hire as defined under the United States Copyright Act of 1976 and will become the sole property of Viacom Media Networks and its subsidiaries and affiliates (hereinafter collectively "VMN"). To the extent that the Design may not, by operation of law, be a work made for hire in accordance with the Design Submission Terms and Conditions, you agree to assign to VMN the entire right, title, and interest in and to the copyright in your Design including the right to sue for past infringement and the right to further sublicense the Design. You also acknowledge that you waive all "moral" rights that you may have in and to your Design."


Just so you know.

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Akaka
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whoa!

johnlaw421

Very few people know legalease

Wharton
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Sounds good to me.

melmike
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I think most people get that anything Threadless prints is no longer their intellectual property, which is essentially what this is saying (I think)

Morkki
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melmike said:

I think most people get that anything Threadless prints is no longer their intellectual property, which is essentially what this is saying (I think)

Nope. That is from the TMNT challenge and the Disney/Marvel challenges are similar. See the bold parts: all submitted designs. Not printed, submitted.

macdoodle
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So basically, if I submit a design featuring my butt then Threadless owns my ass. :D

[+duracell-]

pfft, thats just greedy viacom nobody needs that many bad designs

Musarter
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It does seem crazy that they can own all submitted designs. It makes me wonder if they are fishing for concepts here; they will find concepts that they like and have there faceless artist army recreate them in there homogenized style without having to worry about paying anyone.

Just to be devil's advocate, designers were making designs with copyrighted characters and the designs could never be used/printed anywhere else. I would not expect anything less when working with a corporate media machine.

Zuzia666

"You may not use the Design for any commercial purpose (e.g., sell or license the Design, or offer to sell or license the Design) for ninety (90) days after the date of submission to Threadless.com. Once ninety (90) days have passed, if the Design is not chosen for print by Threadless.com, you are free to use the Design for any commercial or non-commercial purpose. Should this occur, you shall not use the Threadless.com blogs to promote the Design or the company using, displaying and/or selling the Design. You further agree not to use the Threadless.com blogs to promote the products and/or services of any company that compete, in whole or in part, with Threadless.com. Threadless.com reserves the right to choose your design after the (90) days have passed, on the condition that the design has not been used for any commercial purpose." So after 90 days you can do whatever the heck you want. No dark secrets which are not really secrets, eh?

Morkki
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Again, that is the regular Threadless agreement. The one I quoted is from the Turtles challenge. It's significantly different and there's no mention of the 90 day period.

Akaka
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I haven't really participated in the sponsored challenges so this comes as a bit of a surprise. I mean, sure Disney owns Mickey Mouse etc but shouldn't I still own the art I made? That annoys me and seems almost disrespectful to the artists spending hours and hours doing incredible work for their stupid contest. I don't know if I'd go for that, I guess I'll keep avoiding these things.

NomadSlim
NomadSlim profile pic Alumni

Dang. That's harsh. In general Threadless likes to be pretty supportive of the artists but making agreements with the big boys is bound to have consequences.

"Work for hire" without pay... talk about having artists by the balls.

moosabman
moosabman profile pic Alumni

yeah that's pretty ridiculous. This is something that thread staff NEVER would have agreed to years ago, but then again, a business is a business is a business amiright? Although its things like this that pull threadless closer to the "speculative" arena and further from it. http://www.aiga.org/position-spec-work/

BlancaJP
BlancaJP profile pic Alumni
2 designs submitted - Score now!

I don't see much too be upset about. Take the Disney challenge, the price is 10,000 that is a lot, so I'm very happy to do some work for a chance of winning. You are not aloud to draw mickey and sell it anyway, that would be infringement of copyrights. Why would you think you could use your design just because you made it for a challenge after it's over. You make it solely for this and for that chance of winning - that is it.

Jordan_Bender
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7 designs submitted - Score now!
[+duracell-] said:

pfft, thats just greedy viacom nobody needs that many bad designs

haha you never know. I've seen some pretty shoddy tshirts at disneyland.

Morkki
Morkki profile pic Alumni

Sure... but even in the Mickey challenge the legal stuff wasn't that harsh. I quote:

Once the one hundred and eighty (180) days have passed, if your Design is not chosen for print by Threadless.com, you are free to use the Non-Disney Elements of the Design for any commercial or non-commercial purpose.

Granted, once you take out the Disney elements from a Disney design there might not be much left but it's still a whole lot different than claiming everything. Think about it: submitting a design with for example a generic turtle shell, or a mask, or some katanas and nunchakus or even a pizza has absolutely zero copyright infringing elements if they were drawn in the artist's own style and not lifted from any comic/cartoon/movie. That is stuff that could very well be sold elsewhere without problems.

And I'm not saying people should be upset about this... I think they should just know what the deal is. It's everyone's own choice and I choose not to spend time in spec work like that.

Akaka
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It's good to know that not all the sponsored challenges are as bad, though. I'll be sure to read the legal stuff before drawing anything for these things.

Morkki
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The Regular Show challenge has the normal Threadless agreement. Also Bravest Warriors.

BlancaJP
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2 designs submitted - Score now!

true - and I'm clad your pointing this out. I always read the legals first, and I would hope that everyone did as well, so they would know the rules of the game and not sub if they feel they don't like the rules. I'm of the sort that looks at it more like putting my money on a lottery ticket - one shot deal, you might win - you might loose all you put in it. They put up the game so they make the rules, fair enough with me.

goliath72
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1 design submitted -

i didnt know this! but good to know thanks!

AlanBao
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Wow, thanks for the heads-up. It's amazing that they claim all the art, not just the ones chosen. Gotta double-check for that clause where Summer Redstone owns your soul as soon as you click 'submit'.

BlancaJP
BlancaJP profile pic Alumni
2 designs submitted - Score now!

with the resent scrutiny in to all these legal things I've been rereading few of them. Including the TMNT one and this was in it.

"You may not use the Design for any commercial purpose (e.g., sell or license the Design, or offer to sell or license the Design). For the avoidance of doubt, you are not authorized to use the VMN Elements of the Design for any other purpose whatsoever."

At the top of the legal stuff it makes it sound like everything is theirs and this indicates they don't mind the use of none TMNT stuff else where.

so I don't know reading these make my head hurt.

I just wanted to bring it here because even though I might sound harsh to the side of don't care sell it all, In reality I'm always trying to find the middle ground in things. I hate all the legal stuff, so just to be safe, I assume I woun't be able to use it and if I can it will be a nice bonus :) it feels nicer that way.

pijaczaj

I personally do not intend to compete for any of the competitions under such conditions. It is beneath my dignity. It is allowing people to kick you in the face. We should all boycott such competitions in the future, because otherwise there will be no others. and the fact that I can not do anything with this design is not a reason to give it for free. I do not get anything for free from them.

Morkki
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The legal terms keep getting more precise with every new challenge. The Hulk one makes things pretty clear. First line, written in bold:

All submissions to this challenge will be owned by Marvel.

BlancaJP
BlancaJP profile pic Alumni
2 designs submitted - Score now!

I'm thinking - oh that's good, but that sucks !, but well that's just the way the cookie crumbles and wow in bold hahaa they must be thinking - this really needs to be pointed out. It's nice to know someone is reacting to these talks right away, at least in someway.

gumbolimbo
gumbolimbo profile pic Alumni

you are all so OWNED!

randyotter3000
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5 designs submitted - Score now!

Maybe I should restart my pop culture hate machines

Mantichore
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5 designs submitted - Score now!

Doesn't it make sense they own every submission of the challenge? Since you have to use copyrighted characters that belong to them, I don't see how you can use them anywhere else... Unless maybe when it's a parody, or in your own style?

Morkki
Morkki profile pic Alumni

It does make sense in a way, I'm not denying that. They let you play around with their intellectual property after all. BUT they also claim to own all parodies and such. For example, all the pizza designs in the TMNT challenge. You could also say that these challenges provide a legit outlet for fan art, which is nice. But then there are the ones that don't get printed but are now a big media company's property, for free. If you are cool with these terms, then that's cool, I'm just wondering how many people realize the realities.

Another thing I've been wondering is how do these partnerships affect the chances of pop parodies being printed in the future. I think pop culture parodies should still be fair game (even though I know randyotter loathes them) For example The Incredible Hawk:

This is the kind of design that would be rejected from the Hulk challenge: they specifically don't want characters represented as animals. So what are the chances it would be picked outside the challenge? I dunno. Then again, this was just printed so maybe I'm worried over nothing:

hershel

thanks, morkki....unfortunately, I count myself to that guys who feel like reading too much is some kind of pain in the ass...shame on me

I just relied on my general trust for threadless, I should have read the terms for any other kind of contest.. :-(

macdoodle said:

So basically, if I submit a design featuring my butt then Threadless owns my ass. :D

Do they? Only by submitting? Forever and all times? I have to ask some guy in a suit first, before I am going to shave my butt?

hershel

^ meaning Viacom, not threadless itself...I am alright with threadless owning my butt....

Elma e Francis

Face it. When you put something on the internet, it no longer belongs to you....

Elma e Francis

(of course, this put into a contract raises the question to another level)

Akaka
Akaka profile pic Alumni

Putting stuff on the Internet in no way takes away your ownership and copyright. (You're probably joking or something but still)

hershel
Elma e Francis said:

Face it. When you put something on the internet, it no longer belongs to you....

You say it like I should seriously start to worry about ze internetz :-(

Elma e Francis
Akaka said:

Putting stuff on the Internet in no way takes away your ownership and copyright. (You're probably joking or something but still)

yep, i was joking.

but stealing is part of the chaos of the internet. We download music, some russians make this, etc. It's not safe, we have to assume the risks.

(at least here in threadless all intentions are explicit in terms of commitment. just read, and accept it or not)

danrule
danrule profile pic Alumni

that's insane.

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