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'I will design your logo for $5' Discuss.

I've seen a lot of adverts from Fiverr recently advertising that they will designs a logo for $5. What are your thoughts on design bidding sites like this and freelancer.com and Elance.com? What does this say about the future of our industry?


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The Paper Crane
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1 design submitted -

How the F can you justify designing a logo for $5. Is it clip art?

BeanePod
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7 designs submitted - Score now!

Sweet....here's 5 bucks worth! Easy....

Wharton
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I'm increasingly seeing this advertised. Have you ever tried out one of these sites? Its a horrible experience designers under cutting each other for a leaflet job for $20, its madness.

Morkki
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A lot of the stuff offered on fiverr is garbage. But some of them are decent, mostly just fonts thrown together but still ok stuff that should be valued way higher. I get that a lot of people are cheapskates who want everything free but what kind of people value their own work so low?

Morkki
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Some of the top sellers have thousands of clients. Five minute jobs for five bucks?

The Paper Crane
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1 design submitted -

What's next, people doing stuff for free? Makes me think about what this chap was saying on the radio, how the internet is destroying capitalism as people become 'prosumers' instead of consumers, sharing and producing stuff at zero marginal cost.

The Paper Crane
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1 design submitted -

Also via the 'world wide' web it is easy to find cheap labor.

Manupix
BeanePod said:

Sweet....here's 5 bucks worth! Easy....

Lose the text.

Wharton
Wharton profile pic Alumni

Its looking a bit dire for the future of creative industries. Was that a Radio 4 program about the future of capitalism and the internet Rick? I think I caught that too.

I guess If you live in Pakistan (which seems to be the bulk of a lot to the designers) then the cost of living facilitates such low rates.

Wharton
Wharton profile pic Alumni
Manupix said:
BeanePod said:

Sweet....here's 5 bucks worth! Easy....

Lose the text.

Make the logo bigger MUCH BIGGER

Manupix

Add glitter!

parallelish
parallelish profile pic Alumni

I feel like design programs are becoming easier to use and even easier to learn (at least the basics) so more people are using them to try and make money, but I think like most things in life you'll usually get what you pay for.

I don't think this will effect talented designers too much, there will always be clients out there that are willing to pay top dollar for what they want, which is usually something only a talented designer could come up with.

dnice25
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2 designs submitted - Score now!

It sucks!! Designers work is wayyyyy under valued nowadays. They try to take advantage of younger designers straight out of school who have great ideas and no business sense. I know i've been taken advantage of in my younger days numerous times and that's because I didn't know my self worth and I was looking for validation as a designer and money. If business could they would replace us with a computer program and robots. I actually went to a print show once and the had a computer program that could create fashion prints. It would take a few icons and create a number of variation prints. It wasn't really quality stuff but it just shows people rather pay for crap.

The Paper Crane
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1 design submitted -
Wharton said:

Its looking a bit dire for the future of creative industries. Was that a Radio 4 program about the future of capitalism and the internet Rick? I think I caught that too.

Could be? His name was Jeremy Rifkin and among other things he mentioned the music industry and now the publishing industries being heavily shaken by digital format, file sharing, self publishing etc. If you think about our industry with the surge in POD and the effect that is having.

It could seem dire for us but looking at the wider picture, in an optimistic, utopian kind of way, it could be good news. A money free world where the internet destroys capitalism before capitalism destroys the world!

Wharton
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parallelish said:

I feel like design programs are becoming easier to use and even easier to learn (at least the basics) so more people are using them to try and make money, but I think like most things in life you'll usually get what you pay for.

I don't think this will effect talented designers too much, there will always be clients out there that are willing to pay top dollar for what they want, which is usually something only a talented designer could come up with.

I think for established design studios this probably isn't an issue as large businesses and companies will always pay high end cash for good design. But for small and medium sized business that most of us deal with they're not quite as discerning. How many clients have you worked with that have terrible taste and insist on certain paths for projects with horrible results? They will no doubt settle for half arsed work at low low prices. I think both industries lose out in the end.

The Paper Crane
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1 design submitted -

^ and always say they only have a small budget and try to screw you down.

melmike
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Caveat emptor, bitches.

Wharton
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The Paper Crane said:
Wharton said:

Its looking a bit dire for the future of creative industries. Was that a Radio 4 program about the future of capitalism and the internet Rick? I think I caught that too.

Could be? His name was Jeremy Rifkin and among other things he mentioned the music industry and now the publishing industries being heavily shaken by digital format, file sharing, self publishing etc. If you think about our industry with the surge in POD and the effect that is having.

It could seem dire for us but looking at the wider picture, in an optimistic, utopian kind of way, it could be good news. A money free world where the internet destroys capitalism before capitalism destroys the world!

That was it! He was talking about how the internet levels the playing field between consumers and big business and how that down the road we'll have cultures based on small capitalism as appose to big business capitalism.

If you think about how technology is replacing jobs left right and centre you do wonder what the future of societies are. With a growing world wide population and shrinking job opportunities there will have to be a give somewhere.

Wharton
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The Paper Crane said:

^ and always say they only have a small budget and try to screw you down.

I recently made an ebanner for a ladies business advertising 'Mother's day'. Hand drawn type, flowers etc. While we were emailing I asked about her business and whether I could check her website out and she would always ignore these parts of my messages. She told me her budget was a maximum of $200. It was a 2-3 hour piece of work so I took it. After I had completed the work and been paid it turns out she worked for Redbubble.

melmike
melmike profile pic Alumni

TW (tangent warning)

Sounds a bit like the idea that we'd be better off being governed almost entirely by local councils instead of national governments, who would only handle things like armies and such. Made sense to me at the time.

The Paper Crane
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1 design submitted -
Wharton said:
The Paper Crane said:

^ and always say they only have a small budget and try to screw you down.

I recently made an ebanner for a ladies business advertising 'Mother's day'. Hand drawn type, flowers etc. While we were emailing I asked about her business and whether I could check her website out and she would always ignore these parts of my messages. She told me her budget was a maximum of $200. It was a 2-3 hour piece of work so I took it. After I had completed the work and been paid it turns out she worked for Redbubble.

Ha! No way!. $ to £ is a bummer too.

parallelish
parallelish profile pic Alumni

I've only done a few freelance jobs (I'm about to graduate) but I usually just tried to give the client what they want when I knew I wasn't getting paid much, so if they wanted crap I gave em crap (which was still worth more than $5), but there were times where I actually talked a few people out of a bad design or idea which wasn't easy. I feel like freelance designers have to learn negotiation skills and how to convince people, because that's like half of your job.

The Paper Crane
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1 design submitted -
melmike said:

TW (tangent warning)

Sounds a bit like the idea that we'd be better off being governed almost entirely by local councils instead of national governments, who would only handle things like armies and such. Made sense to me at the time.

I think there is a strong argument that local and small is better for people and planet in many cases. Things like agriculture and finance in particular. Also local government can understand the needs of local people much better then some far off centralised gov.

parallelish
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I think if the US had an actual democracy and an actual capitalistic (not croney capitalist) economic system with a few things like healthcare and education socialized then things wouldn't be as near as bad.

Musarter
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I have been a freelance designer for over ten years and an in house designer for seven years. In that time my freelance prices have doubled but my day job has not increased. I don't live in a big city so my day job options are very limited. Where I live people are extremely cheap and 80% of start-ups would jump on the 5$ logo in a heartbeat; many times they just want something, anything, to start their business. The cheap attitude comes from two things: 1. I live in a college town and students, or fresh graduates, will do work for pennies or free and 2. Most businesses do not know how a good design looks or care about it's value.

Most design graduates need to consider two things: 1. To be a successful designer you must live in a large city and 2. You must take an unpaid internship and impress. Without either one of these you will be stuck unless you know the right people. From my experience talent can only take you so far in the design world. Although I will add that with companies like Threadless and Redbubble the opportunity for good freelance from exposure is out there (ex. Wharton) no matter where you live or who you know.

I tried doing Elance for a short-time and was always significantly under bid. It was disheartening but I would feel prostituted if I was paid below $10.00 an hour, although many are willing to work for much less.

soloyo
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I thought this was about the new profile page logo. I was getting my $5 ready for you LOL

The Paper Crane
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1 design submitted -

Yes, Chris would you design a new profile page banner for me too for $5?

Morkki
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Wharton said:

Its looking a bit dire for the future of creative industries. Was that a Radio 4 program about the future of capitalism and the internet Rick? I think I caught that too.

I guess If you live in Pakistan (which seems to be the bulk of a lot to the designers) then the cost of living facilitates such low rates.

There's the thing. Minimum wage in the US is $7.25, in Pakistan around 50 cents. Designing a clipart logo definitely beats 10 hours of labor any day.

Musarter
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Morkki said:
Wharton said:

Its looking a bit dire for the future of creative industries. Was that a Radio 4 program about the future of capitalism and the internet Rick? I think I caught that too.

I guess If you live in Pakistan (which seems to be the bulk of a lot to the designers) then the cost of living facilitates such low rates.

There's the thing. Minimum wage in the US is $7.25, in Pakistan around 50 cents. Designing a clipart logo definitely beats 10 hours of labor any day.

The glory of the global economy. Cheap products that are shitty and fall apart easily or in this case clipart logos as far as the eye can see. As is always the case, you get what you pay for and landfill suffers the consequences.

Wharton
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Like Evan was saying earlier, with the advent of programs becoming free or cheaper everyone is an amateur designer or willing to have a crack at it and the market is saturated with people all vying for the same work. Plus, like Musarter said most clients don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to good design.

Bohsky
1 design submitted -
Wharton said:
Manupix said:
BeanePod said:

Sweet....here's 5 bucks worth! Easy....

Lose the text.

Make the logo bigger MUCH BIGGER

My wife likes bright pink color. Use it in the logo.

Wolfgang8885

Is this like the only industry that isnt growing or booming? Jesus....

PeculiarTiffany
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1 design submitted -

When I was doing art for yearbooks (for a big company) I would have to purposely make things look like shit sometimes because otherwise I would get accused of stealing it from the internet. People have terrible taste, are cheap and the field is over-saturated with people that like to play around in Photoshop.

ArTrOcItY
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I think that's an awful trend but unfortunately it's the world we live in where everything is 'Made in China' just because it's cheaper that way so paying $5 for a logo is reasonable price..(insert irony) :/

EZFL
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Terrible trend but, $5 for a logo doesnt seem all that bad if you can pump out 15-20-30 of those a day on the side of what ever else it is you're doing. A lot of the work i've seen at those places is cookie cutter shit anyways. It all looks the same and clearly didnt take much time at all to throw together. Once you figure out a formula that people like, you can prob. get a logo done in 15-20min tops. Quantity of quality.

Sites like those are playing a huge part in destroying what's left of the graphic design industry, but if it was easy money going into my pocket, I wouldn't mind.

ArTrOcItY
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Yes but I guess there is a reason why high quality logos cost from $1000 and up, it's all about branding and I think no professional logo designer who usually gets paid in hundreds, thousand of dollars would accept to be paid $5 per logo, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know ... I'm mostly designing book covers and I get paid from $200-$300 per cover and I see those sites that charge $25 and less (maybe there is even for $1 since logos are always paid much higher than book covers) and it makes me really sad because I know how much work is needed to do a really quality cover.

EZFL
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EZFL said:

Quantity of quality.

What I meant to say was quantity OVER quality.

lxromero
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3 designs submitted - Score now!
TheInfamousBaka said:

When I was doing art for yearbooks (for a big company) I would have to purposely make things look like shit sometimes because otherwise I would get accused of stealing it from the internet. People have terrible taste, are cheap and the field is over-saturated with people that like to play around in Photoshop.

thats why all my work looks like shit

fightstacy
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Pffffft, ...I'll design your logo for $4

gasponce
ArTrOcItY said:

Yes but I guess there is a reason why high quality logos cost from $1000 and up, it's all about branding and I think no professional logo designer who usually gets paid in hundreds, thousand of dollars would accept to be paid $5 per logo, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know ... I'm mostly designing book covers and I get paid from $200-$300 per cover and I see those sites that charge $25 and less (maybe there is even for $1 since logos are always paid much higher than book covers) and it makes me really sad because I know how much work is needed to do a really quality cover.

As you said I'm guessing it might be a different market. I made some bussiness cards for my husband in like under 30 min. cause more casual was needed. But if I was Coca Cola I don' t think I 'd want a 30min. Logo for my brand! That said, people are getting underpaid in pretty much every field there is so I think there is a general "crisis" or "shift" in things in the global market as we knew them.

gasponce

I mean my mom started as a graphic designer in magazines in the 80's.Every piece she did was like a custom made art piece, with all the hand drawn, airbrush, panting inking steps in between. And she was paid accordingly! Of course when the generation of photoshop emerged, her work shifted to more digital and it was harder for her to keep her salary up (that's why unions are a big deal if they work right), because young people fresh out of design school would do "cheaper" art for half the money! I mean she is a fine arts graduate (don't know the proper title mba or what's it called!) and she still worked wonders in ps but her bosses didn't want to pay her as much ! So you see things like this happen in various ways and they are a piece of the flawed (imo) capitalism puzzle! Of course the good thing about art is that if you're good at it you might have a following which might end up providing you with good gigs and stuff, but you know, people struggle at times!

berlynhubler
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gasponce said:That said, people are getting underpaid in pretty much every field there is so I think there is a general "crisis" or "shift" in things in the global market as we knew them.

I have seen several sites that offer freelance work like this. The problem is definitely not isolated to design... In my engineering seminar, we were warned that finding a job was becoming difficult because engineers from countries outside the U.S. would work harder for less money.

gasponce
berlynhubler said:
gasponce said:That said, people are getting underpaid in pretty much every field there is so I think there is a general "crisis" or "shift" in things in the global market as we knew them.

I have seen several sites that offer freelance work like this. The problem is definitely not isolated to design... In my engineering seminar, we were warned that finding a job was becoming difficult because engineers from countries outside the U.S. would work harder for less money.

That whole thing about other people "working harder" is such bull though! If there is no "law" protecting at least some kind of "minimum wage" (unlikely on the internet) there will always be demand for "more" time,work,effort with "less" pay, benefits etc. In Greece to "help with the crisis" they made a law that if you're under 25 they are allowed to pay you aprox. 25-30% less for the same ammount of work! So clearly it's not only about "foreigners working harder"or the crap they say it's about getting more profit out of every single one of us in whatever way works!

Wharton
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This is the dude I want to punch the most.

Musarter
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Bring out the eggs!

Ryder
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1 design submitted -
Wharton said:

This is the dude I want to punch the most.

Ross?

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