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Still, there is a discrepancy in the old and new scoring system.

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jeffreyg
jeffreyg profile pic Staff

they're probably just not updating at the same time. but they both follow the same system and the data comes from the same database.

Robo Rat
Robo Rat profile pic Alumni

Hi Jeff, thanks for the information. May I know which one is the updated system when it comes to averaging?

jeffreyg said:

they're probably just not updating at the same time. but they both follow the same system and the data comes from the same database.

Robo Rat
Robo Rat profile pic Alumni

On the old page, Randyotter is on the top while on the new page, he's on the 6th place. Can this be fixed?

yiannz

I hope the old page is telling the truth, cause on the new, my design dropped from the first page to the bottom...:P

I also hope, if that's the case, that is going to be fixed soon, cause now you have to scroll way way down to find it, and the scoring has already been frozen...

It's weird though, cause the order changed dramatically for many designs...

Robo Rat said:

On the old page, Randyotter is on the top while on the new page, he's on the 6th place. Can this be fixed?

je14

the old scoring is much better than the new one..my design is from the top 3 then its in the 60th place..wtf!

Robo Rat
Robo Rat profile pic Alumni

@yiannz, it's been like that one since yesterday and the system haven't updated yet. And yeah some design plummeted tens of places down.

@je14, almost all of the designs have been repositioned. Can't determine the actual position of every design.

waynem
waynem profile pic Alumni
1 design submitted -

My design's slightly higher in the new system, so whatever's changed, I'm all for it ; ). Seriously though, any big change like this is going to need a few bugs ironed out. Just need to relax and let the tech guys do their thing.

pweye
pweye profile pic Alumni

Just compared the old and new systems in the Geek Chic contest and there are some radical differences there. Some of the designs from the top in the old are way down the order in the new.

pweye
pweye profile pic Alumni

For a start my design is lower in the new order than it ever was in the old. And new votes appear to change the order the old system but have no effect on the new system. Also, new votes that shift the order instantly in the old system seem to have effect to the order in the new...

Morkki
Morkki profile pic Alumni

So maybe the sorting in Top Designs takes into account other factors too like the amount of votes and comments? I don't know, doesn't really matter what the order is anyway.

pweye
pweye profile pic Alumni
Morkki said:

So maybe the sorting in Top Designs takes into account other factors too like the amount of votes and comments? I don't know, doesn't really matter what the order is anyway.

There are more important things in life than the order - true. But more exposure means more votes. It's pretty depressing having a decent design finishing scoring with less than 200 votes I can tell you. Also, the order is the only way you can tell how the design is doing during scoring.

Wharton
Wharton profile pic Alumni

Conversely though, the higher up the design pages you are the more chance you have of down voting. I wouldn't worry too much about this, like Waynem said, theres always things to sort out when new systems are introduced.

spookylili
spookylili profile pic Alumni
2 designs submitted - Score now!

I think the order should be always random so that nobody would have any idea what the scores are before finishing, and downvoters wouldn't know what to do. But that's just me...

The Paper Crane
The Paper Crane profile pic Alumni
2 designs submitted - Score now!
spookylili said:

I think the order should be always random so that nobody would have any idea what the scores are before finishing, and downvoters wouldn't know what to do. But that's just me...

That's what it used to be like a long long time ago.

JIMDAHOUSECAT
JIMDAHOUSECAT profile pic Alumni
spookylili said:

I think the order should be always random so that nobody would have any idea what the scores are before finishing, and downvoters wouldn't know what to do. But that's just me...

I agree.

Morkki
Morkki profile pic Alumni

Absolutely, random would be fair to everyone. However, many voters just want to see what's at the top any given moment. There's plenty of ways to determine the order but I don't know what kind of calculations are used now or if they're functioning properly. Just ordering by average score isn't very good though.

Wharton
Wharton profile pic Alumni

I don't see why we can't just see our scores like we used to you wouldn't have to have a page of the highest scores, you could avoid some down voting and it would satisfy the artists curiosity.

The Paper Crane
The Paper Crane profile pic Alumni
2 designs submitted - Score now!

First you could not see the score until finished. Then you could. Now you can't again but you can gauge from the order

I think this is the best solution as it still leaves that element of surprise (or disappointment) and I don't see Threadless backtracking.

macdoodle
macdoodle profile pic Alumni

I liked to see where my stuff stood but I hated it being a target for down voting (not that I had top shelf stuffs). Im torn on this new layout, but I'll get used to it. Change is good.

spookylili
spookylili profile pic Alumni
2 designs submitted - Score now!

Then maybe leave the option to sort by average but sort randomly by default.

The Paper Crane
The Paper Crane profile pic Alumni
2 designs submitted - Score now!
spookylili said:

Then maybe leave the option to sort by average but sort randomly by default.

Best solution^

Bohsky

Hi, everyone! I have just compared designs in the Collaboration Contest and yep, Morkki, you was right :). New system arrange designs according to the number of votes, so first one has the biggest number of votes, last one - the smallest. As I understand it's the only factor, that influences on the design's position.

Bohsky
  • that has influence on )
pweye
pweye profile pic Alumni
Wharton said:

I don't see why we can't just see our scores like we used to you wouldn't have to have a page of the highest scores, you could avoid some down voting and it would satisfy the artists curiosity.

I agree. Any ordering will favour some designs over others. Ordering by number of votes just means more votes for the designs with most votes.

pweye
pweye profile pic Alumni
The Paper Crane said:
spookylili said:

I think the order should be always random so that nobody would have any idea what the scores are before finishing, and downvoters wouldn't know what to do. But that's just me...

That's what it used to be like a long long time ago.

When I first started on Threadless all designs - good and bad - got over 2000 votes. And there were less users. Of course, your voting average was not public then so you didn't have to worry about looking like scrooge.

pweye
pweye profile pic Alumni
conan doyle said:
The Paper Crane said:
spookylili said:

I think the order should be always random so that nobody would have any idea what the scores are before finishing, and downvoters wouldn't know what to do. But that's just me...

That's what it used to be like a long long time ago.

When I first started on Threadless all designs - good and bad - got over 2000 votes. And there were less users. Of course, your voting average was not public then so you didn't have to worry about looking like scrooge.

Alright, I just checked and 2000 was a bit of an exaggeration! But it was more than now OK...

The Paper Crane
The Paper Crane profile pic Alumni
2 designs submitted - Score now!

So does ordering by votes not hugely favor older popular designs over new 'potentially' popular ones, with more exposure giving you more votes. ...or is it all relative?

Previously ordering by average score meant that a design could find itself at the top whether it was old or new, had a high number of votes or low.

Not sure were 'Rising' come in or how that is determined?

Random by default is probably still the fairest option along with a 'popular' and 'new' button.

Wharton
Wharton profile pic Alumni

Random is definitely best. I don't see the point in having a top list of pages for artists. Other than the inherent smugness of being on the front page. All it does is allow down voting idiots easy access to the people they want to target the most, its asking for trouble. Like I said before its far easier just to have the scores show alongside the design. When I'm curious about my score during voting its not about where its placing in the relation to everyone else's, I just want to see my score.

yiannz

My thoughts exactly...It seems like every new design, especially those coming from new designers, who don't have many followers to score them upfront, will stay at the bottom for long...

At first I thought this wouldn't be an issue, because of the new super-fast scoring system...bu numbers tell the truth...

My design, is in its 2nd day for scoring..Since the new system came, it dropped instantly from the 1st page, to the bottom..Since then I've got only 10 scores, while yesterday, till the change, I had 75...That explains a lot... In order to see those designs at the bottom, you'll need to scroll the hell out of your mouse weel...not even mention to score them...I also wonder how the "rising" tab actually works?

Anyway...Keep scrolling :P

...and if you like, take some time to give my poor design some scores...It feels so lonely down there :D

The Paper Crane said:

So does ordering by votes not hugely favor older popular designs over new 'potentially' popular ones, with more exposure giving you more votes. ...or is it all relative?

Previously ordering by average score meant that a design could find itself at the top whether it was old or new, had a high number of votes or low.

Not sure were 'Rising' come in or how that is determined?

Random by default is probably still the fairest option along with a 'popular' and 'new' button.

Sach_80
2 designs submitted - Score now!

The new system I do not like. It's hard to follow your design.

Bohsky

I think it will be fair if you can see only your own average score, number of fives/ones for your work, and all designs are ordered randomly. So there will be no such problem as "targets for down voting" and you will have your personal info about how your design is doing.

pweye
pweye profile pic Alumni

@ yiannz - I hear you. So far today (3rd day of voting) my design has picked up around 10 new votes. If it carries on like that I will not reach 200 votes. It's like it's invisible. I don't care about down-voting or averages - I just don't want the voting to freeze after 2 days!

The Paper Crane
The Paper Crane profile pic Alumni
2 designs submitted - Score now!

Looks like they have changed how it's ordered as I am now below randy!

Bohsky

"Below Randy" sounds like a name for adult movie )

Robo Rat
Robo Rat profile pic Alumni

I believe that if the designs will be placed in random order, it will be very hard even for the designers to search their own designs since the new system needs more scrolling to be able to check the designs one by one. And it will be tiring to count every design while scrolling to check your standings. However, I think the positions are now in order according to the average score. Or is it still jumbled?

skaw
skaw profile pic Staff

Yesterday we shipped an update that uses a similar algorithm that reddit uses to identify top and rising content. It's pretty rad IMO, the rising section just got super interesting.

The Paper Crane
The Paper Crane profile pic Alumni
2 designs submitted - Score now!

Does not seem too dissimilar to 'top designs'. A slightly different order with a handful of lower scoring designs sneaking in there. However I guess much of the time what is trending is likely to correspond closely with higher scores anyway.

What are your thoughts on the default view as many people here feel it should be random?

The Paper Crane
The Paper Crane profile pic Alumni
2 designs submitted - Score now!

Ok forget my last comment as now it seems radically different...! Maybe it's just warming up?

toolbar
toolbar profile pic Staff
The Paper Crane said:

Ok forget my last comment as now it seems radically different...! Maybe it's just warming up?

We're tweaking the variables to get a good balance of new-good stuff and older-great stuff. The first iteration of the Rising tab was a little imbalanced (too similar to the Top tab), but we rolled out a change this morning to balance it a little more.

I'll do a short writeup in a bit to explain it in a little more detail

Wharton
Wharton profile pic Alumni

I think cherry picking good new and old stuff is asking for trouble. I care more about down voting idiots than I do about comparing my score to everyone else's. I think new people can feel isolated enough without their designs disappearing into obscurity alongside more established members. I'm not sure you realise how frustrating it is to see your design drop from first page to third page overnight on its last day of voting because someone has targeted your work. I think Random is best it serves us all equally.

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