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So many haters...

So today I checked the stats of my submission Midnight In Ghost Town that had just finished scoring.



I was kind of surprised that it just got a 3.05 although it's been on page two of the highest scoring submissions when scoring ended. Around 30% gave it a one?
I was trying to find a reason for this. I've been actually pretty sure that this could reach 3.50 or something like that.
Then I checked the other designs that had just finished and looked at the scores:


I Can Haz Cheeseburger Spaceships? by TheInfamousBaka: 3.07
The best show by gebe: 3.03


(all high scoring submissions)


and then Space Cleaner by Entar_1

3.18 ?? Wasn't this the highest scoring design of all week? (Correct me if I'm wrong)


Normally there are always some designs that reach 4.00 every week. And every design I mentioned above deserved a score of that size, don't you think? So it's definitely not a quality issue.


I know that the problem of low-scorers/ isn't a new thing but you have to admit that this is pretty strange. Seriously what's going on in the world? Is this the herald of the worlds end?(can't wait to see that movie btw). I don't know...


Watch this
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FoodStampDavis

Those are actually good scores.

TheInfamousBaka

I was pretty disheartened by my score and by the scores like yours that obviously deserved to be higher. I think a gaggle of down voters made their way through the submissions.

TheInfamousBaka
foodstampdavis said:

Those are actually good scores.

It's not that they're bad scores, they're decent. But these deserved better and were obviously targeted by a bunch of assholes that have nothing else better to do.

Wolfgang8885

I dont think the scores are bad, but I see what you mean. The fact that some people really give 1s to some of those designs above amazes me. Either they are haters like you said, or they really really really have no idea what a good design looks like. I mean, at least give them a 2!!!

I think all of these are 5 material personally. That ghost town is amazing! I regret the fact that I did not get to score any of these. I need to get on that. Scoring can be tiring lol.

mechanicalrobotpower
1 design submitted - Score now!

It's impossible to give any of these a 1, ..there's no logic to that. I could understand maybe 1,2 or 6 1's, ..but hundreds of them, no way, ..It sucks so bad.

kuro_te
1 design submitted - Score now!

I propose that if you're awesome, Threadless will just drop all the ones from your score. Everyone in the original post qualifies.

jaywalkergraphics
kuro_te said:

I propose that if you're awesome, Threadless will just print that shit regardless. Everyone in the original post qualifies.

Fixed.

Twiggyhall

Lame :/

sorry that happened, guys...some people are a-holes

Matias Corado

As a newbie, I'm a little bit dissapointed about how hard is to get your designs printed. I mean...currently Mister Mittens' Big Adventure is the most popular t-shirt and I found it really ugly compared with so many others designs that have been not printed (sorry, I don't want to offense anybody, but I don't like it at all). So I'm like..."wtf??? these amazing designs haven't been printed and those others boring awful designs yes?".

I can't understand if at the end having a good score is a about how people likes you (I think it helps of course) or about how good / nice is your design.

Matias Corado

I guess that there is people for all kind of designs (I can't understand at all wtf does threadless community have with kitties). But, seriously...I saw really nice designs from a lot of people and a photomontage is the most popular? Once again: sorry, I doesn't have nothing personal with nobody, but I think that there are a lot of better designs that haven't been printed.

Giving so many 1 to excellent designs? Weird...

FoodStampDavis

Downvoters gonna downvote. It's definitely lame, but since they do it to every design on the page, it evens out at least.

Some folk are just dicks.

jaywalkergraphics

Sometimes a design is just adopted as part of the Threadfamily—it is not judged technically so much as celebrated joyfully. Mr. Mittens [while not my favorite design] became an icon basically from day zero. It happens.

But there are hundreds of technically spot-on designs that have printed and scored high. So it's not so much a crap shoot to me as kind of a cipher, figuring out the Threadless audience. Meh.

melmike
jaywalkergraphics said:

Sometimes a design is just adopted as part of the Threadfamily—it is not judged technically so much as celebrated joyfully. Mr. Mittens [while not my favorite design] became an icon basically from day zero. It happens.

In the film industry, we call that 'buzz'.

ps. I'm not in the film industry, but if I was, I'd probably call it buzz too.

chuck p comics

Idiots gonna vote like idiots! All these subs should print

Robo Rat

Still waiting for the Cheater Meter and all their asses will be blasted to smithereens. Their score manipulations got nothing against Threadless' decisions on which to print.

melmike
Robo Rat said:

Their score manipulations got nothing against Threadless' decisions on which to print.

Yes, but the artists above deserve really juicy scores, which were robbed of them. Considering how few tees Threadless prints overall, it's like a form of compensation, as in, "well it didn't print, but at least it scored really high." I know for me at least, high scores encourage you to keep going, or further develop certain styles over others.

I can't really complain though because I've been relatively unscathed of late with regards to down-voting.

EricKaz
1 design submitted - Score now!

Those aren't bad scores, I think if you're gonna do a space (or cat, zombie, etc.) design you gotta really make it stand out since it's been done so much. My theory is that people get their friends and family to vote for their design, and then they go and downvote everything else hoping it'll help their friend out.

endoxo

It's been very difficult to reach 3.5 +, if there are haters, I dont know how hard they work everyday to push all others down?? They should be rewarded :D :D :D

jordanmemari

I suppose it depends on how people vote.

Personally, I try to take my personal preferences out of the equation and vote as follows:

5 - fantastic concept executed well with great style 4 - good concept, executed well or fantastic concept but execution a little off 3 - concept and execution are ok, wearable but lack the WOW factor 2 - they've made an effort and it doesn't look like it was made in paint or the concept is ok 1 - it lacks any concept or idea or executed as prettily as a dog going for a poop.

Wharton
2 designs submitted - Score now!

Theres been a lot of this bullshit going on recently. Score does count to a degree. My understanding is that Threadless chooses designs from a pool of the top scoring designs. So this sucks on a personal level and potentially on a printing level too.

laurxy
foodstampdavis said:

Downvoters gonna downvote. It's definitely lame, but since they do it to every design on the page, it evens out at least.

Some folk are just dicks.

That's the problem. It doesn't even out. It just happens to the high scoring submissions. They get a much higher percentage of 1s. (about 32% of my design's scores were ones.) If you look at the stats of designs with a 2.90 or lower you'll see that the percentage of 1s is normally less than 20%.

Morkki

Mister Mittens is relevant to this discussion only because it scored 2.27 and Threadless decided to print it anyway. I know scores were lower on average those days but it was a low score even by those standards.

quick-brown-fox
2 designs submitted - Score now!

I always thought it would take a shit ton of effort to make fake accounts to score people down, making fake email addresses to go with the fake account, but as you don't get a verify your account email before your account is active, it's easy.

biernatt

It's nothing new that even the most outstanding and excellent designs get 1's. I totally agree that it's an awful shame. But hey - designers of these pieces know and we (meaning people being honest in scoring) all know where the low scores come from - it's a place of no art appreciation, shallow minds and misguided crowdforcing. I agree it can feel disheartening (been there) but I'm sure you guys (aforementioned designers) know your hard work and brilliant ideas are really appreciated. So keep on keeping on. And maybe Threadless will figure out what to do to prevent at least the most obvious downvoting going on.

Ground_Ghost
biernatt said:

It's nothing new that even the most outstanding and excellent designs get 1's. I totally agree that it's an awful shame. But hey - designers of these pieces know and we (meaning people being honest in scoring) all know where the low scores come from - it's a place of no art appreciation, shallow minds and misguided crowdforcing. I agree it can feel disheartening (been there) but I'm sure you guys (aforementioned designers) know your hard work and brilliant ideas are really appreciated. So keep on keeping on. And maybe Threadless will figure out what to do to prevent at least the most obvious downvoting going on.

Hear, Hear! Well said!

Also, I've just read the article that quickbrownfox just linked up. E-Mail verfication needs to be a must now.

It's demoralising for a hard-working artist who spend hours, if not weeks on a design (which may I add many within the community are print worthy) to see a crazy amount of 1's when scoring's finished. Furthermore, it's sad that those who do down-vote seem to not have much faith that their design will do well (though I could be wrong), so they feel they have have to somehow eliminate the competition to have a fighting chance.

I'm just hoping Jeff, Dan and the rest of the Threadstaff, do something about it soon. It's becoming an increasing issue.

By the way, I hope that laurxy, Gebb and TheInfamousBaka get their subs printed! There wouldn't be any justice in the world otherwise! Because...

taz-pie

a few years back i tried unsuccesfsfully to create a fake joke account. it was gonna be a shaq one, if i am not mistaken? anyway, i wasn't able to because i was trying to use my normal email address which i use for taz-pie. it didn't allow me to. ANYWAYYYYY is that no longer a thing?

iamshaq

Hey Taz I love you

mezo

Dang. So greedy.

Be grateful.

mezo

It's interesting to take time out and focus on the downvoters, but think of all the 5$s you get from your friends even when maybe the design isn't technically a 5$ worthy design. But they're your friends, they love you, so they upvote the shit out of you. I've totally been guilty of doing this.

So, it's a balance. Yes, assholes will be assholes and vote a 1 on designs that might be worth more; but bros will be bros and vote 5$ on designs that might not be worth as much.

Y'feel me?

(Mister Mittens is the fuckin tits & one of my favorite shirts of life, so back the fuck off!)

moosabman

Yeah there was a big wave of downvoting right when yours when up. Space cleaner was at the very top, and my squatches design was doing well too, but it caught the start of the downvote wave right at the end of scoring. Luckily it didn't affect mine horribly, but I watched yours, cheesburgers, and space cleaner get creamed. I wish there was something we could do about it but at least the downvoting is kinda universal. It just makes the average "good score" lower. Totally sucks to see something that deserves a 3.8 end up in the middle though. Not good for us artists hoping for HONEST feedback.

Wolfgang8885
mezo said:

It's interesting to take time out and focus on the downvoters, but think of all the 5$s you get from your friends even when maybe the design isn't technically a 5$ worthy design. But they're your friends, they love you, so they upvote the shit out of you. I've totally been guilty of doing this.

So, it's a balance. Yes, assholes will be assholes and vote a 1 on designs that might be worth more; but bros will be bros and vote 5$ on designs that might not be worth as much.

Y'feel me?

(Mister Mittens is the fuckin tits & one of my favorite shirts of life, so back the fuck off!)

Thats a good point. But 1s do affect you more than 5's. It takes like 8 5's to cancel a 1...So the 8ish people you get to vote for you that are friends or family, are barely making up for one downvoter out of, a hundred?

huntia2713

Could just be some butthurts out there ho want to give their own post more of a chance by downvoting the better ones.

biotwist

Mister Mittens' Big Adventure its the best, suck it

Morkki
Wolfgang8885 said:

Thats a good point. But 1s do affect you more than 5's. It takes like 8 5's to cancel a 1...So the 8ish people you get to vote for you that are friends or family, are barely making up for one downvoter out of, a hundred?

Worst. Math. Ever.

jamesnotjim

Down voting is a waste of time I don't get why people do it cause at the end of the day thread staff choose what gets printed regardless of score!

speedyjvw

Mister Mittens' is just OK

Wolfgang8885
Morkki said:
Wolfgang8885 said:

Thats a good point. But 1s do affect you more than 5's. It takes like 8 5's to cancel a 1...So the 8ish people you get to vote for you that are friends or family, are barely making up for one downvoter out of, a hundred?

Worst. Math. Ever.

It's really not. I work in Customer Service where customers can rate you from 1-5. 1's really do affect your average. And it takes a lot of 5's to balance that out. The good thing here at least, is that you also get a good amount of 4s, 3s, and even 2,s.

speedyjvw said:

Mister Mittens' is just OK

I personally dont like Mister Mittens, but I can understand the popularity. It would be nice to see other more popular designs in the spotlight however, Mister Mitten's is so 2008.

Poeha

I think there are not many intentional down-voters. A lot of people give 1's when they would never wear it. Because A. It's not their taste (they like pink stuff with hearts and glitters and pony's for instance) B. They have a different taste of humor.

I do that too sometimes. Sometimes I wonder if I should pity-vote with a 2 for the effort. Because I do think everyone gives their best, and I do know some designs take hours to complete... but then I remember that this is not a website for wether art looks good or not, it has to be sellable on t-shirts. So I should vote as a t-shirt-buying constumer as fair as possible.

Poeha
Wolfgang8885 said:
Morkki said:
Wolfgang8885 said:

Thats a good point. But 1s do affect you more than 5's. It takes like 8 5's to cancel a 1...So the 8ish people you get to vote for you that are friends or family, are barely making up for one downvoter out of, a hundred?

Worst. Math. Ever.

It's really not. I work in Customer Service where customers can rate you from 1-5. 1's really do affect your average. And it takes a lot of 5's to balance that out. The good thing here at least, is that you also get a good amount of 4s, 3s, and even 2,s.

speedyjvw said:

Mister Mittens' is just OK

I personally dont like Mister Mittens, but I can understand the popularity. It would be nice to see other more popular designs in the spotlight however, Mister Mitten's is so 2008.

Crap. I just entered another kitten in space disign :(. Kittens in space WILL make a comeback in 2013. :P

Morkki
Wolfgang8885 said:
Morkki said:
Wolfgang8885 said:

Thats a good point. But 1s do affect you more than 5's. It takes like 8 5's to cancel a 1...So the 8ish people you get to vote for you that are friends or family, are barely making up for one downvoter out of, a hundred?

Worst. Math. Ever.

It's really not. I work in Customer Service where customers can rate you from 1-5. 1's really do affect your average. And it takes a lot of 5's to balance that out. The good thing here at least, is that you also get a good amount of 4s, 3s, and even 2,s.

Uh, no. There is no magic. If you have, say 10 votes, all 3, that's an average of 3.0, right? Now, if the 11th voter gives a 1 the average is now 31 / 11 = 2.82. If the 12th voter gives a 5, the average is now 36 / 12 = 3.0. The 1 and the 5 cancelled each other out. Now, if you add 7 more voters there giving 5's (8 fives against a single 1) the average is now 71 / 17 = 3.94. Math.

Poeha

Look into my eyes... you will feel sleepy.... obey me. OBEEEEY MEEEE. Jesus cat wil be the new Mr. Mittens in 2013... obey...

jaywalkergraphics
speedyjvw said:

Mister Mittens' is just OK

Yeaaah, Mr. Mittens. Heh, everybody's gotta like something, eh?

mezo said:

It's interesting to take time out and focus on the downvoters, but think of all the 5$s you get from your friends even when maybe the design isn't technically a 5$ worthy design. But they're your friends, they love you, so they upvote the shit out of you. I've totally been guilty of doing this.

Yeah, that's an interesting point. But think of the reasons people get upvoted in any meaningful way versus the reasons people get downvoted. People generally get upvoted because they are [a] hood famous, with a monstrous web following that will love everything they make, almost indiscriminantly; or [b] popular bloggers here who have invested a ton of time [years] here, and have amassed tons of positive karma for various reasons. Is it technically "fair"? I dunno, depends on how you define it, but we've all seen it, and it happens, and personally, meh.

Now, the criterion for downvoting is considerably simpler. You have to be [a] not me, and [b] not my frond I came here to vote for. That crap is just mindless. People have said, myself included, that scoring is not everything, but it really is at the very least annoying, and depending on the timing of it can really skew the results in the end if only a portion of the subs are affected. Sometimes, artists don't know how well their work was received. That's the worst part, for me.

Matias Corado

Sorry Joe, nothing personal, but you have better designs. Anyway, I understand that Mr. Mittens is such an icon t-shirt of Threadless.

Goto75

For next years Threadless awards: Downvoter of the year

jaywalkergraphics
Matias Corado said:

Sorry Joe, nothing personal, but you have better designs. Anyway, I understand that Mr. Mittens is such an icon t-shirt of Threadless.

Honestly, I love that certain designs are so iconic they defy scoring and criticism. It is part of what makes T'less fun.

DavidBS
Goto75 said:

For next years Threadless awards: Downvoter of the year

Sounds great.

lenoreo

I like Poeha's point about voting for personal taste/wearability. I'm new, and when I first started I let my personal tastes affect my votes a LOT. Since actually having a design submitted, I realize that 1's suck, so I try not to give them at all unless a design actually sucks (imo of course). But I do still base most of my voting on what I would wear. I appreciate art and have seen some incredible things on here.... But in the end, if I'm not going to buy it and wear it, then why would I vote a 5?? Does that make sense?? In the end, I will always be influenced heavily by my own sense of humour and style. But I figure I'm balanced off by other people and their own personalities...as long as people actually take the time to vote and balance me off....:)

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