Threadless is flawed.
As someone that has submitted several designs (under a different username, I didn't want to start a flame war), I've become aware of flaws in the execution of the Threadless business model.
First, let me point out a truth about Threadless. I don't get the impression that Threadless was ever intended to be a "design contest". It is a portal through which designs can be submitted and evaluated for free, by consumers. In truth, Threadless is an ingenious market research tool! The business model seems fool-proof. The consumers design the products, provide marketing feedback on those same designs, and then the consumers purchase the product that they helped create and evaluate. Seriously, that's an amazing set-up.
This brings me to Flaw number one. Anyone can vote and those votes all carry the same weight. The success at Threadless is determining what designs will sell. Threadless is not a design contest, it is a popularity contest. Even bad designs might sell. So the most popular designs get printed. However, if a multitude of eight-year-olds begin voting on Threadless, their business model is shot, because eight-year-olds don't often buy t-shirts online with a credit card, and eight-year-olds probably won't vote for shirts that the rest of us are going to want to buy. If the voting is skewed by non-purchasers, Threadless starts losing sales.
Flaw number two. There is a lack of integrity in the voting process. Any person can vote multiple times by creating dozens of accounts each between themselves and their friends. Experienced designers, like myself, aren't interested in spending hours on a good design when that design could lose due to unscrupulous voting practices. If good designers start to avoid Threadless, the quality of designs will begin to decline. It seems to me that Threadless would recognize the value of support from professional designers and want to build credibility within the design community. That starts by bringing some integrity to the voting process. If people begin to perceive Threadless contests as being "rigged" or unfair, the quality of submissions will decline, and sales will suffer.
Flaw number three. Inconsistent and unpleasant customer relations. The Threadless design approval process seems rather sketchy. Any of you that have scored design submissions know that there are some truly crappy ones out there. But before you can vote on them, the Threadless staff reserves the right to decline a submission. So, if they are pre-screening designs, how do those completely crappy ones get in there, and why are some of the better ones declined? I know of two separate designs, both were original artwork and well-crafted, that were declined for being "poorly designed". Of course, I saw those designs, and I know they weren't poorly designed, and the designer was very upset. Perhaps the staff didn't like them, but subjective opinion can't be equated with poor design. And, it seems to defeat the purpose of a popularity contest to prevent the inclusion of an entry based on personal bias. So, what was the "real" reason they were declined? There are foul, boring, uninspired, crude, cliche and obviously plagiarized designs that appear every day on Threadless, and it seems unfair and inconsistent to decline two original and fun designs without an adequate explanation. If the public begins to view Threadless as anything less than ethical, honest, fair, and trustworthy, then design quality and product purchases may suffer.
The success of Threadless as a business relies heavily upon designers and consumers. If the business were a living creature, the designers are like the bones and the consumers are like the muscle. But votes are the life-blood. Votes encourage the designers and provide product for the consumers. Those cumulative clicks slowly determine the product line of the company.
Considering that every shirt printed by Threadless is a contest winner chosen by the customers themselves, I would expect almost every shirt to sell very well. However, the t-shirt sales of today are only a small part of the total picture. Threadless is a business, and they aren't banking their future on the sales they make today but they are surely hoping for a bright tomorrow. They must make sure that future design submissions are good enough to sell, and that means building brand loyalty by making designers feel appreciated, fairly treated, and confident that the results are a true reflection of what the consumers felt was more popular that week. As a designer and a contributor, I can't say that I feel Threadless treats submissions fairly or that I feel that Threadless is interested in maintaining integrity in the voting process. I don't know if I'll continue to submit designs to Threadless. Every time I see a crappy design win, it cements my feeling that Threadless is letting the golden goose slip away, and they are alienating designers in the process.
I want Threadless to succeed, and I think it's a fantastic idea. Heck, I wish I'd thought of it! I wanted to voice my concerns in the hope that reasonable people could discuss them. Maybe some good ideas will come out of it and maybe you'll be able to put some of my concerns to rest.
NOTE: I posted a comment below as an update.
KerforKurb
Makes Sense Its hard to fight the machine when it overpowers us already
Larlar
Flaw #2 is kept to a minimum by Threadless, unless someone goes through the trouble of using a different computer and internet connection for each alternate account they have, and I'm sure there are too few people willing to put that much effort just to squeeze a few extra votes into the pile of 2,000. Even with friends voting high for them, I bet it doesn't raise the final score by more than 0.05.
BrewHaHa
You used cliche as an adjective. It's a noun. I've sent a Drive-by motuerpuele to your house.
Stevethegreat
it's ok....they make their money by doing things how they see fit you have some decent points but nothing to really worry too hard about
olie!
You're right about Threadless being a business foremost. That's what it is at heart, and always has been, and will continue to be. But I wouldn't put as much of an emphasis on votes as you do. You call them the "lifeblood" and while they do serve a purpose, they don't always determine everything about the future product line. I can recall many submisisons that were voted very high, but instead lower voted shirts won the contest. There are insane amounts of elements that go into deciding this stuff, and it is probably way more complicated (or simpler) than we imagine. The "good" and "bad" design thing is simply this: One man's trash is another man's treasure. Though there are certain rules and traits that make some designs better than other's, the human mind is ultimately really messed up and changing all the time, so it pretty much comes down to what you're in the mood for. I don't know if that last bit made much sense to you, but yeah. That's pretty much it.
bananaphone
Interesting, you say that some things get declined because of personal bias - and I totally agree. and yet you go on to mention about crappy designs getting printed. What exactly do you find to be crappy, are you readily able to admit that what is crappy is YOUR personal bias? I have seen some great designs site unsold for months, and some shit ones sell out within a week. That is my personal bias.
Chronoflip
Who cares!?!? Pretty non-expensive shirts, cool blog, happy gilmore STP's, and love! ^_^
olie!
Chronoflip's gotta point. Live and let live.
They Call Me Special K
threadless checks ISP adresses for lameasses who register multiple accounts to cheat the system.
slaterock
Yeah, i've been submitting designs for years now, and I really have no gripes or quirps. As a designer, i'm just glad that I have reason to create something. It would be different if threadless took ownership of all submitted designs, but this is not the case. Relax, it's fun!
They Call Me Special K
they dont have to be the best to the designers because they are paying the best. people are willing to take some shit if theres a chance for a bigger payoff. its 2000 bucks, if youre not willing to take a couple hits in the process try your luck at the sites that pay under 400 dollars for what can ultimately be 10-20 hours of work.
cnv3rg
sad sad sad look guys it appears that our new friend just joined today?? hmmmm.... are you making multiple accounts???? or are you really new
speedyjvw
did you create this account just to make this blog? lame
kaloyster
I agree with multiple accounts.
SuperPope
Sure, you could artificially beef up the score, but Threadless are not idiots. If you get a lot of negative comments on your design they're not likely to print it. If it gets an amazing score but they still don't like it, they won't print it. There are a lot of highly scored designs that don't get printed. The whole thing is subjectively decided by the Threadless staff, and that's their prerogative. We just get to help them formulate their own opinion about what might sell well, and therefore affect what gets printed. But that does bring up an interesting point: If they didn't let us comment or vote at all, do you think they would do anything differently? Would different shirts have been printed?
kaloyster
If you get a lot of negative comments on your design they're not likely to print it. But, but.. Predicament gotsa lotsa negative feedback, the moment people realize that it was a ripoff design. Eyng?
Papaprime
I agree that some of the scoring process is a popularity contest. But Threadless does not only print the highest scores. That';s a huge flaw in your flaw. And I agree that some of the designs that I submit and they reject are better than some that gain entry. But I can at least admit that the ones they reject are not my better ideas. The moment they reject something I think is tremendous, I'll get upset. But as long as the flaw within your flaw exists, I don't think there will be a huge problem. Just sore desiners who keep getting low scores because they haven't been around the block. You just have to submit the most incredible design ever to start the popularity snowball. In the meantime, others and I are catching snowflakes on our tongues.
ConcreteEvolution
interesting points. i've thought about this myself. i've also noticed that you have used your new account to score designs....
Papaprime
low scores too. He's a vigilante out to balance the system! He's scoring low on popular designs! OH NOES!
ConcreteEvolution
i am addicted to this buisness model though. and like papaprime said, they choose from the highest scoring designs. They also print low scoring subs too.
kypade
I remember how the same exact thing has been posted fifteen or so other times in the past year-ish and nothing happened and threadless just gets bigger and better. So I don't think they care if (you think) they're "flawed"...cuz it's certainly working, is it not?
Sinister_Sock_Puppet
These are great comments! I'm glad to see that there are a few people that can respond without being bitter or small-minded. I was wanting a serious discussion about the business. There have been comments about two of my thoughts, but the first flaw still stands unaddressed. What do you all think about how the business model can be skewed by non-purchasers? I love Threadless, and that's why I created this post. I'm mostly concerned about the future of Threadless. It is doing great now, but every company wants to grow. At the moment there are a lot of people that are still unaware that Threadless even exists, and every day there are more people that discover it. With every new discovery there are people excited about the idea and they submit designs, and that's great! Things are going well for Threadless now, and will most likely continue to go well until the market becomes fully aware of their presence and Threadless' growth starts to level-off. This post was intended to do several things; get people talking about the future, to discuss things that several designers and friends have questioned, and hopefully help make Threadless an even better place to get a cool t-shirt and make a few bucks. Yes, I created this account to make this post. I was concerned that people might vote negatively on my submissions if they thought I was speaking negatively about Threadless. I think that's a completely reasonable rationale. I did score designs last night after creating this new account, but I did not score them any differently than I would have if I'd scored them with my regular account. I gave some $5 votes to a few designs that I really liked (The Jetson5 design is hilarious, and there's a cool "robot in disguise" that I liked too). I also scored one of my own designs to see what would happen (I'm sure it's not going to win, it's not one of my best). I suppose it's possible that they monitor I.P. addressed, but that they only become suspicious if there are many usernames tied to one I.P. address. If that's the case, I think that is a reasonable policy considering a family of four might all have accounts. I'll just hope and trust that Threadless does try to keep things fair. There's not much else I can do about it anyway.
Bright Neon Payphone
Sinister_Sock_Puppet, i like what you have to say, very intelligent points.
skaw
hey christopher, you raise some great points and we have tried to address all 3 of the flaws you've mentioned over the years
1: we do soooo many different things to look at what the votes actually mean. we sometimes look JUST at i'd buy it requests, sometimes we look for controversial designs that have lots of 0's and lots of 5's ... sometimes we'll even see what the top scoring designs are if we weigh the votes of users who have made a purchase a little higher than the other votes. sometimes we'll even single out users who have given the most printed designs 5's and see what else they are giving 5's. we don't use any of these methods exclusively and sometimes nothing ever comes from it but we definitely sift through that data with a fine toothed comb.and you're totally right. MOST of the voters have never even purchased a shirt before so there is definitely a degree of seperation there. i don't know if i'd consider it a flaw as long as we're aware of it and treating it properly.
2: we have a few items in place to help handle that behind the scenes. we don't advertise how we're handling it because then people may look for other ways to spoof votes. 3: i think everyone else has addressed this pretty well :)realslimnatey
yeah no kidding, have you not seen the way they goof around in their offices!? they clearly are just a bunch of cool dudes like myself
eskimokiss
"This is absolutely not correct. The Jakes aren't business guys. I'm certainly not one, and we've been working together for 5 years. Threadless's SOLE purpose was to be a design contest. A continuation of a contest that the Jakes held on a thread from the online design community, Dreamless. (Get it? Threadless... a thread on dreamless?). It's pretty easy to look at what we have now and conclude that this is some master-scheme cooked up by a bunch of business guys, but that's absolutely not the case." I still don't see threadless as a business foremost and community second, even though most people view them this way (and even though they're turning over millions a year) Threadless to me will always be community first, money makers second. Maybe I'm too much an idealist and dreamer, but I'd like to think the guys (and girls) behind threadless are in this for more than just the money. Jeffrey's comment reassures me of this.
WallsReallyWork
also, the fact that the voting is screwed up has been said many times before. we know that there are eight year olds and scores have gone down recently. but threadless has adapted and has done a great job of still printing intelligent and witty designs (even if they score low)
amy122166
threadless is pretty awesome. it's a t-shirt company that lets the consumer participate...it's brilliant in my book. it is very unfair to call a printed design crappy...because that is an opinion. i love some things others hate...and i hate some things others love. and designers get to submit their stuff at no charge with the possibility of making cash or receiving products...having their designs seen...that's pretty cool.
ConcreteEvolution
I think threadless is an amazing idea! I really like the community that the blogging/submitting/scoring creates. I feel like I have learned a lot about design and using illustrator just by looking at designs and reading blogs. So there is more to gain than $2000. AND, think of the exposure that the designers/artists are getting. Over 2000 people score designs! There is no submission fee, so it seems like all perks to me. Think of all of the exhibits that cost $25 or more for a jury fee... and how many people end up seeing your art? usually not 2000 people. I also feel like i am involved in certain designs- so when one i voted $5 for gets printed, i get super excited and can't resist buying it. i can't imagine someone voting for all of the submissions and not feeling this way. any type of system has flaws. its important that the people invested in the system are aware of them; threadless definitely is aware of them and they are doing their best to address them. so in my mind, threadless is the cat's pajamas!
.moto.
good blog
kidaro
To quote the Dude: "Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
kaloyster
Two pink posters sealed the deal, mang.