Threadless.com - Best t-shirts in the world
Type Tees - Amazing tees created from submitted slogans!
The Select Series - Artist edition limited invite only tee shirt designs
Threadless Kids - Designer kids & baby clothing
Ray Frenden
Ray Frenden is a boy, has been a member since July 19, 2007, has scored 385 submissions, giving an average score of 2.22.
Alumni Club Member
  Jul 08 '09 by Ray Frenden        53 Comments        Watch this      Share:  Share on facebook    Share on delicious    Share on digg    Share on MySpace    Tweet this    Stumble this    Share this on Kaboodle   
From my blog.

I don't know about you, but I'm having a hard enough time making a living from illustration in the current economy. The ever growing list of crowdsourcing, spec-generating sites like 99Designs has added another to its tally, Cameesa. This is a particularly hard pill to swallow. Cameesa's crowd-funding philosophy was almost an ubuntu-esque, anti-spec treatise. Enter "Operations." "Operations" on Cameesa let entities create requests for designs. From their own copy:

How it works? ... Artists submit their Ragnarok Tee designs. ... Members financially support an unlimited number of their favorite designs with $10+shipping. ... Artists & Supporters are rewarded with ongoing dividends and t-shirts (once a designs hits $500). Read the full details OR Start supporting.


Screenshots from the current system:

Fuck Cameesa

Fuck Cameesa

Most designers are not picked and spend many hours working for the entity's "theme" for free. They end up with designs for a specific entity that are not applicable for resale in most cases. This is much different than creating personal works that can be used elsewhere should the designs not be chosen for print. How likely is it that a Ragnarok games based design will be usable for another purpose? I have similar issues with Design By Humans' "themed" contests that often require work to be created on spec for large clients. Incubus and KISS, really? Good luck selling the Gene Simmons design elsewhere! I'm sure you won't be sued into oblivion; perhaps that's the final fuck you to the designers leasing their souls one entry at a time?

I tweeted a succinct, if vulgar summary of my feelings on Cameesa's "Operations" program and received a reply from Andrew Cronk, who created a thread on Cameesa to address possible concerns. Let Cameesa know how you feel there.

Designers lose, entities win. Spec-alike, for sure. Crowd-funded? More like crowd-sourced!
Page:
1 2

shakethesheets
shakethesheets on Jul 08 '09 at 10:05am
That's too bad. I really like the normal setup of Cameesa, it seems like something that could definitely succeed with a bit of tweaking.
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 10:07am
I liked the original system too.
jayrawz
jayrawz on Jul 08 '09 at 10:08am
damn them!
jayrawz
jayrawz on Jul 08 '09 at 10:09am
next thing you know, we're all flinging our own poo and fighting to the death for a commission.. its just like last saturday!
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 10:15am
Dun-dun-dun-dun-dundundun-bwwwwraaaah! /Star Trek /Cable Guy
jayrawz
jayrawz on Jul 08 '09 at 10:18am

YES!
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 10:22am
Can I be Spock?
spacesick 2
spacesick 2 on Jul 08 '09 at 10:26am
ray if you're being hit by the tough economic times, why don't you just do what I did and sell your summer weekend home? I figure I've already got my winter weekend home and my spring sunday condo, so if I'm already in my summer home for the season, I don't really NEED to get away to a second summer home on the weekends.
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 10:27am
I will punch you in the taint.
spacesick 2
spacesick 2 on Jul 08 '09 at 10:29am
if you guys wanted to come up and stay in the guest house through the season, all you had to do was ask.
jayrawz
jayrawz on Jul 08 '09 at 10:37am
spacesick, Ill make like a sinbad and be yo HouseGuest!

Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 10:46am
Can I wear a hairstyle ala Kid 'N Play?
jayrawz
jayrawz on Jul 08 '09 at 10:48am
if you didnt, i would be pissed
hands_on_fire
hands_on_fire on Jul 08 '09 at 10:55am
Recent changes made it so you can enter DBH's special contests without using any of the items used in the style kit, thus having the ability to reuse the design elsewhere.
spacesick 2
spacesick 2 on Jul 08 '09 at 10:56am
ahaha. I'm finally gonna redo my 2 year old Sinbad 2 the Bone design so the three of us dudes can wear it!

spacesick 2
spacesick 2 on Jul 08 '09 at 10:56am
good thing I learned how to draw since then
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 10:57am
Swell. Again, when KISS is the subject matter and you are encouraged to draw KISS related imagery, good luck selling that design.
jayrawz
jayrawz on Jul 08 '09 at 10:57am
i need a hightop fade wig STAT
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 10:57am
AWE. SOME. Do want.
spacesick 2
spacesick 2 on Jul 08 '09 at 11:05am
SIN
BAD
2 THE
BONE
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 11:20am
SO
SAD
2 BAD
UR DAD
ISABOA
   ISABOA on Jul 08 '09 at 11:27am
i agree 100%
squatterjohn
squatterjohn on Jul 08 '09 at 11:42am
That's no good. Unlike on Threadless, where a Loves contest requires you to create a stand-alone design based on a general theme and actually requires you not to include the brand or logo, this contest tells you to "Be sure to show Characters and Monsters of Ragnarok having a great time in a summer atmosphere!" For the purposes of the contest you have "limited license to use Characters, NPCs, Monsters, and Map themes" but once you do that, there's no way you could sell that again if your design was not the winner. They probably wouldn't even be favourable to you using it in your website. The DBH rules offer a sort of middle ground. The Incubus one requires you to use the Incubus logo on a t-shirt that will be chosen by Incubus so that's just as bad, but they have a DBH choice that must not contain the logo.
professorE
professorE on Jul 08 '09 at 11:54am
I posted a blog last night about logotournament.com. I guess this is the "spec-generating" type of site you are referring to?
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 12:08pm
Professor, link?

Squatter, please post that to the Cameesa thread. I know it's a lot of effort, but they need to know people beside me are upset by this practice.
professorE
professorE on Jul 08 '09 at 12:10pm
I can't link from my phone, but I just bumped it a minute ago.
ginetteginette
   ginetteginette on Jul 08 '09 at 12:13pm
http://logotournament.com/

whoa, that made my heart sink, really.
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 12:14pm
BARRF.
hands_on_fire
hands_on_fire on Jul 08 '09 at 12:15pm
Wow, that is pretty awful.
ginetteginette
   ginetteginette on Jul 08 '09 at 12:21pm
how can people justify selling logo work for 250$?
ginetteginette
   ginetteginette on Jul 08 '09 at 12:25pm
i love that this is in the their faq:

Designer Standards

* Respect all community members.
* Respect clients and do not publicly criticize their decisions or attempt to influence them through anything other than your designs.


self-respect
professorE
professorE on Jul 08 '09 at 12:26pm
The thing is, having worked at a sign franchise, a lot of these places don't charge for specific design services, so they are pretty much trained that way, and a lot of customers come to expect it.
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 12:41pm
That's why it is our job as designers to educate potential clients, Professor:

http://frenden.com/spec-worked-over-with-a-rubber-hose/

An aside, I used to run a sign shop. I didn't practice that way.
professorE
professorE on Jul 08 '09 at 12:49pm
When I set out on my own, I didn't either. I had to break myself of a lot of bad habits I picked up in 9 years of working for a franchise.
ginetteginette
   ginetteginette on Jul 08 '09 at 12:54pm
wow, that guy is an idiot.
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 1:03pm
Yeah, McCompanies seldom practice inside ethical boundaries, Prof. :)

Ginette, of all the spec emails I've fielded, that one was the most overtly douchey.
gumbolimbo
   gumbolimbo on Jul 08 '09 at 1:26pm
: /
olie!
   olie! on Jul 08 '09 at 1:43pm
Personally I don't see what the big fuss is with spec-based contests like this. As far as I'm concerned they can ask anybody to do anything they want. If designers don't like the theme of the contest because they think it's too limited, and if they think there's a very good chance they won't win, then don't enter.
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 1:49pm
Your lack of entry doesn't preclude client expectations of pay lowered in a way that impacts the rest of the industry. Therein lies the rub.
gumbolimbo
   gumbolimbo on Jul 08 '09 at 2:05pm
I appreciate your efforts to keep pointing this out to designers, Ray.
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 2:12pm
Hey, it affects me too!
bcrider
bcrider on Jul 08 '09 at 2:20pm
Ew. This just feels all kinds of wrong.

And I'm nothing even CLOSE to a designer.
Edword
   Edword on Jul 08 '09 at 2:23pm
So are all contest bad for the biz? It seems that is No!Spec.com position. I always thought Cameesa had a pretty cool biz plan. Is it just the Operations contest you have a problem with?
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 2:35pm
It's the Operations bit that gets me riled up, yes. Open contests like T-less don't bother me. I can do anything I want with the work later.
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 3:03pm
Coincidentally, a podcast about spec that interviewed me just went online. http://jeffreyhimmelman.com/episodes/WiPep5.mp3

Hopefully I don't sound like too much of an ass.
danrule
   danrule on Jul 08 '09 at 3:06pm
Totally agree with everything you've said. Keep up the good fight Ray.
shirtflirt
shirtflirt on Jul 08 '09 at 3:08pm
ray, this happens in all creative fields. well, maybe not all, but as a video editor, i see a similar thing happening when people are taking jobs that pay way below a decent wage to simply pay bills/have some cash. no fault in that, really. but what happens is is that producer who hired the editor/assistant editor for cheap thinks he/she can and should do that going forward. it's hurting the entire trade both union and non union shows are creating an environment where you have to work more for less money.

it's off topic but i just wanted to commiserate
ginetteginette
   ginetteginette on Jul 08 '09 at 3:13pm
totally on topic shirt. creative people seem to undervalue their own work in all fields.
shirtflirt
shirtflirt on Jul 08 '09 at 3:25pm
they do GG. i don't get it. i guess, the only people familiar with the creative process are those in the creative process?
Ray Frenden
   Ray Frenden on Jul 08 '09 at 3:35pm
Yeah. I have a friend who scores games and movies. He has the same gripes about spec.

Page:
1 2
(53 comments!)


You must be logged in to leave a comment.
Check me winner more


My gallery photos
I haven't submitted any photos. I guess I don't want free money.

My designs

All about me
Ray Frenden is a self-taught illustrator with a penchant for monsters and the macabre.

Drawing from a childhood weaned on horror comics, detective novels, trashy films, and retro sci-fi, his brush and ink work hearkens to an older era.

That juxtaposition of old sensibilities for crafting line and a footing in current color and design trends make Ray’s work unique.