It works well for uninsured me in Canada. We do have a shortness of doctors however and there is a wait for surgeries and CAT scans and such because of it.

Actually, I believe the top...7?... countries, minus the states is universal. France is a step ahead with patient information available to all physicians, so your records are always up to date.

When you say "uninsured me" are you a Canadian? What do you mean uninsured, if healthcare is universal? Why do you think there is a shortage of doctors? If surgery is emergency or urgent is there still an inordinate wait?

As far as i know , here in the Uk it works well on the whole.

there are always worries over budget and whatnot, but it does not favour the rich which is very relieving for people such as myself who earn very little. I must say one of the few things i dislike about the US is your health care as opposed to ours. you can pay for private health car if you wish but the NHS is basically free healthcare for all as and when they need it so it's ok in my book. I just feel incredibly lucky not to be living in the third world or something.

Others may disagree, but if Obama can manage to form a similar system over there, i think you guys will be better off for it in the long run

As far as my knowledge goes (which isn't very far) in Canada there is both private and public (universal) health care. Everyone has the universal health care, as it is paid through taxes, but some people opt to supplement it with their own private forms.



My uncle is Canadian and went through a double lung and heart transplant surgery in May. I've gone up to visit him a few times this summer and he's doing really well and the doctors have all taken very good care of him. They're saying that later this week he may even be transferred to a rehab hospital.

He didn't have to wait long for this surgery, as soon as they found a donor for him he was alerted and went into surgery (he was on the transplant list for about 5 months).

Healthcare in Canada isn't totally 2-tiered, some things you can pay for privately for improved or faster (supposedly) service, but not major things.....it's certainly not common anyways.



Most Canadians only pay for things like dentistry, optometry, some orthopedic devices and such, and a portion of costs for prescriptions (which are way cheaper than in the USA anyways).....and all of these things are covered under benefits from many employers, as they are in the States.



I think any horror stories you've been hearing in the American media lately are grossly overblown. Granted, sometimes wait times for certain surgeries/procedures/tests can be long, but I think it's only extremely rare that this would have an impact on your immediate health. Emergency stuff does not sit on a backburner.



The government DOES NOT tell you which doctor(s) you have to attend.



I can't imagine not having universal healthcare.....when I feel like I need to go to the doctor, I go, without worrying about how I'm going to pay for it or having to deal with private insurance companies. I like that.

Thanks, that is interesting to hear! Any more comments from others?

heyheyitsme on Aug 30 '09 at 10:33pm

When you say "uninsured me" are you a Canadian? What do you mean uninsured, if healthcare is universal? Why do you think there is a shortage of doctors? If surgery is emergency or urgent is there still an inordinate wait?



I am away so sorry to the late reply.



I do not have insurance and I am Canadian. Being uninsured means I pay out of the pocket for glasses and medication, being Canadian means I can get in a horrible car accident tomorrow and walk out of the hospital not owing a sent.



There is a shortage of doctors because at least where I am currently no doctors are taking new patients which means you go and sit at a clinic instead of making a doctor appt. I also live in the North and doctors prefer to stay in the south.



No, if you need immediate surgery you are bumped to the head of the line. Emergencies are exactly that.

I'm Canadian -- I have health insurance, through my university students' union. Julie covered most of it. I have to pay for things like dental and my boyfriend has to pay for his orthotics, but I get a lot of discounts especially as a student.

I have always heard good things about healthcare in Cananda and the UK, (until now in the more right-winged media).



I look foward to having federal health insurance in the US.

don't listen to the right -wing media bullshit dude.

my experiences with the UK healthcare system have been awful, but I always assumed it's just as awful everywhere else. Don't tell me otherwise or I'll cry/sue the hospital that screwed up my leg

I never have.

brentendo, could it have been a problem specific to that hospital/doctor?



I had a situation like that with my Grandma a few years back, they forgot to strelize some equipment and almost killed her.

haha good Krimson



brentendo, sorry bout your leg man. I'm sure people have terrible problems with the NHS; it is by no means perfect. I just think in general a free health care for all is a better system than one that works in favour of the rich. and this does not make me a commie!

to reverse the question a moment: if you have an accident in the US, can you not go to A&E if you're uninsured/have no money in the bank?



i've taken my dad to the emergency ward twice in the UK - when things are bad i can't fathom dealing with monetary issues on top of that. and no, there were no delays in their seeing him; and yes, the doctors were great.

good to not listening to the right -wing media i mean.



Shit that sucks about your grandma

It wasn't down to anything like that luckily. I broke my foot and they decided it wasn't appropriate to give me a cast or anything, so I ended up housebound for a month because I couldnt walk anywhere (they eventually realised I had ligament damage to both feet which they had failed to diagnose/see the first time round) and I now can't skate or generally run for any length of period :( I blame the doctors

Yeah, this discussion is very interesting. I am american and I have insurance through my employer. It's not a majorly huge company, and I think I pay close to 400 a month for insurance. Mind you I don't make much a year, only about 30,000. The plan I have which covers me, my wife and 2 kids includes medical, covers half of dental, half vision and I pay like.. 8 bucks for prescriptions. Basically I hope I can keep what I have, but I understand those that can't afford or aren't offered some kind of plan through their employer. My biggest concern with the universal healthcare plan is that even if I choose to keep what I have, I will be paying taxes into this universal healthcare plan, which I think blows. The benefits of me having a private plan means I have a family physician. Also, most of the times i've been sick/needed to go the doctor, I've been given a prescription. It sounds like in canada/uk you pay for the medication, no discount, however for me, I pay a 25 dollar copay for the visit to the doc, then 8 bucks for whatever generic prescription he prescribes. My family has been diagnosed with whooping cough, and we found out that for the medicine for just one of my sons, it would've been 40+ dollars. With insurance, just 8. I dunno, it's going to be interesting when it all happens. I guess I don't mind paying a little extra bit in taxes, as long as it isn't an absurdly high amount.

aw shit that sucks man.

If you go to the emergency room in the US, and you have no insurance, they are legally required to stabilize you (stop you from bleeding to death, make sure you are breathing, etc.).



However, they usually bounce you as soon as you won't immediately die.

My other question/ concern is with the doctors. Has there always been universal healthcare in canada/u.k? I would imagine federally employed doctors would not make near the amount that a current doctor makes in the U.S. now. Will there be a shortage of doctors because of this? Again, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm going to assume everything will be chill and alright.

Slate, this bill shouldn't affect "family doctors". As they would accept you as a patient, and then be paid by your federal insurance.



Hopefully, you would be able to suppliment your tax-paid healthcare with private care at a lower cost (rather than just doubling up on care).

From what I have heard, doctors in the UK and Canada make just as much as US docs.

^^ nice. Yeah, I'm not as worried as others I've talked to about this. When my family was poor poor we got some government assistance, and other than the yards and yards of paperwork, we got great help.

we don't pay to visit a doctor, and prescription fees are the same no matter what the medication is (£7 or something?), plus for the over 65s it's free. i think.



NHS dentists are getting rarer by the day, as they make more money going private. but you have to pay either way, just cheaper rates if you can get on the books of an NHS one.

opticians mke most their money from selling glasses, so the fees for an eye test are nominal - once tried filling out the form to get a student rate eye test, and the amount of info they required made me just pay the (quite small) full whack. i'd rather pay a tenner for an eye exam than a few hundred a month for insurance.

It sounds like in canada/uk you pay for the medication, no discountdollars.

No. In Canada many people have their own family doctor, I had one until mine retired a few years ago. My family can go an see a new doctor, I don't live here so I go to a clinic in the city I am, if I have to.



In Canada you pay for medication if you are not insured. My dad had a drug/eye plan with his job in which he paid for the meds then was reimbursed. It all depends on who you work for and what their plan is. Long story shirt, all my medical needs were paid for until I was 21.



My other question/ concern is with the doctors. Has there always been universal healthcare in canada/u.k?



Kiefer Sutherland's Grandfather, Tommy Douglas: January 1, 1947 – Douglas created Canada’s first universal and compulsory hospital insurance program – the Universal Hospital Services plan. It was the first program in North America to provide complete benefits to all residents.



I know some Canadian Doctors went south to the States because Americans are willing to pay an arm and a leg for privatized care meaning the doctors would get paid even more. On a whole, I still think the majority that stayed in Canada do quite well for themselves.

Julie covered pretty much everything.

Neither of my parents work for a big company so none of us have insurance. However, when it comes to medication costs the gov't covers it past a certain amount because we classify as "low income".



Sad story.

Unfortunately, when my parents brought my nana home from England (she had senile dementia and couldn't function by herself anymore) she ended up the hospital with pneumonia (we don't know whether she had it before and it flared up when she got here or whether she caught it on the flight over) and nearly died.

However, because she was not a Canadian citizen she wasn't covered by health care and we nearly went bankrupt paying off her medical bills. :(

But that is neither here nor there.

However, because she was not a Canadian citizen she wasn't covered by health care and we nearly went bankrupt paying off her medical bills.



Yes, you must be a Canadian citizen. I remember my math teacher in H.S telling me that her mother went to the States for a visit, did not get the travelers insurance, she ended up getting sick and dying. When they got the bill the hosp she had died in charged her family right down to the amount of q-tips used (9). So always get travelers insurance when visiting another country, even if its just a day trip!

Oh, and since I worked at a surgery/doctor's office I can give you a bit of background on how the billing works.



Once your appointment is completed the doctors will add you onto their "billing sheet" which includes a key (or multiple) for what exactly they saw you for. If they prescribed medication for ADHD, diabetes, asthma; did a full body exam; gave a pap-smear; etc. the key is entered onto the billing sheet and they are compensated accordingly.



I do remember reading something in a medical journal/magazine (the doctors received copies and I'd sometimes take home copies they put in the recycling) about how some family doctors were refusing to take people as patients if they had cancer because the time they didn't get properly compensated for the time they had to put into their care.



Also, all the doctors at my surgery/clinic/surgery were required to do rounds at the local hospital.

Also, all the doctors at my surgery/clinic/surgery were required to do rounds at the local hospital.



that's pretty sound - i don't think that's the case in the UK, and my opinion of GPs there are that they are a bit clueless, perhaps due to their cushy chickenpox/hypercondriatic clientele.

excuse me, just want to say hi to you hey2itsme! :))

Hi Jemae! How are you? I don't go on Threadless too much lately, but I'm on Facebook a lot http://www.facebook.com/inbox/?folder=[fb]messages&page=1&tid=1054556103669#/eileen.slifer?ref=name



And thanks everyone for all your comments! I am very interested in this issue. I am hoping that Obama's healthcare reform does pass, I believe it would be a good change. I think there is a lot of propaganda going around here in the U.S.

how can anyone think that universal health care is a bad idea..

I like how when they talk about all the bad things that could happen if we get universal health care they don't talk about all the bad things that are happening with the current system

Obama wants to unplug grandma and kill Sarah Palin's baby!

You know who else believed in healthcare?



Hitler.



Obama and his Democrat party are Nazis! And racists! Racist Nazis!

This is socialism!

I just looked up the wages, a junior doctor makes £33,000 a year but that can eventually go up to £70,000 a year (but I do think it depends on the job), so a junior doctor is on $53,615.89 and a more experienced doctor is on $113,698.53 a year.



Their not exactly poor.

Oh by the way we got the NHS (the wealthfare state) after world war 2, demand for the welfare state was so high that Winston Churchil lost the 1945 general election because his party did not support it.



Despite the fact that he had a hero's status for leading us to victory.

but if she had a brain tumor....

what?

It works well in principle but standards are erratic. I've know one person die from doctor/surgeon error, one person very nearly die from misdiagnosis and my sister had an uncomfortably close call this time last year, when she lost two pints of blood from an artery in her neck which was cut accidentally during an operation.



That said, there are also countless successes and given the choice I'd take the NHS over the American system 8 days a week. The management structure needs a serious overhaul as well as the government's approach daft, statistics-based approach to dealing with the NHS.

grandma and sarah palin's kid deserve it.



The only remotely legit argument I've seen against universal health care comes from people who already have health care and don't want to pay for others'. Which comes down to basic selfishness. We have to pay for schools even if we don't go to them or have kids. We have to pay for roads even if we walk, and public transit even if we drive. These are things that help the entire society. Because if we get into a car accident, we'll be happy there's an affordable bus system to get to work. And if we have a kid, we'll be happy they can get a good education. And if we ever lose our jobs that give us this cushy healthcare, we will be ECSTATIC to have a universal option.



This is what taxes are for. To create programs that benefit the country at large. I think people forget this. We don't benefit directly from all of it, but in the long run, we're ALWAYS paying for programs we don't necessarily use. Because that's what taxes mean. And because we believe there are some things that the whole country deserves to have equal access to for their own betterment. Every single person who protests this sort of thing is not just selfish, but they are naive. These programs are put in place to benefit the whole country. And if someday we are not well off enough to afford a doctor or private health coverage, you'd better believe we'll be kicking ourselves if we opposed a universal health bill. Because THAT is what it is for. If we can all afford private insurance, awesome. but the second we cannot, we deserve an option that says "hey, you're sick? we'll give you some care!"



Universal health care is something that just about every world power has, except for the US. That shouldn't be a point of pride for us. Anyone who wants to block it is simply saying they don't care about the majority of America. And those people should not be in office serving us.

We all pay National Insurance contributions through our pay in the UK to pay for the National Health Service (NHS). The NHS does have serious flaws (concerning performance and funding). Some people who can afford it take private health care (on top of their compulsory NI contribution) to avoid busy hospitals, waiting lists and to have a more personal service. So there is still capacity for people to be able to pay for a 'better' service beyond the standard.



The important thing for me is that universal health care means that everyone gets the care that they are entitled to as a human being. Entitlement to health care shouldn't be linked to ability to earn.



I guess it's something you take for granted until you learn about the US health insurance system. If I or someone in my family had an accident which means they required hospital treatment - I would just have to get them to hospital or call a (FREE) ambulance if it's urgent. I can't even begin to think what it might feel like to get invoiced for it all.



Like I mentioned - the system here is far from perfect and it has it's critics - but the peace of mind you get from having a national health care system in place makes it pretty invaluable. Everybody here in the UK wants to see it improved, but nobody I know would want to get rid of it.

I think that everyone here in the UK on the hole is proud to have a system that aims to provide care for anyone who needs it. I know I am.

^Americans using lies to further a political agenda?



Damn, I'd never've seen it coming?

Thanks for all your input, this is really great!