Threadless

stubby43
stubby43 aka Phil is a 25.42 year old boy, has been a member since December 22, 2006, has scored 3,809 submissions, giving an average score of 2.65, helping 191 designs get printed.
Anyone else extremely uncomfortable with the new Food fight challenge?

One its not really a charity its an Advocacy group which automatically makes me squmish.

But the whole statement is extremely biased, its full of claims that are designed to scare people but lack actual evidence to back up their claims.

Although companies that produce genetically modified organisms say they’re safe to eat

Actually, its not just companies that produce gmo's that say this:

The European Commission Directorate-General for Research and Innovation 2010 report on GMOs noted that "The main conclusion to be drawn from the efforts of more than 130 research projects, covering a period of more than 25 years of research, and involving more than 500 independent research groups, is that biotechnology, and in particular GMOs, are not per se more risky than e.g. conventional plant breeding technologies."

http://ec.europa.eu/research/biosociety/pdf/a_decade_of_eu-funded_gmo_research.pdf (pdf) A decade of EU-funded GMO research (2001-2010). Directorate-General for Research and Innovation. Biotechnologies, Agriculture, Food. European Union. 2010. p. 16. doi:10.2777/97784. ISBN 978-92-79-16344-9.

"A 2008 review published by the Royal Society of Medicine noted that GM foods have been eaten by millions of people worldwide for over 15 years, with no reports of ill effects."

Key S, Ma JK, Drake PM (June 2008). "Genetically modified plants and human health". J R Soc Med 101 (6): 290–8. doi:10.1258/jrsm.2008.070372. PMID 18515776.

In fact the closet paper I could find arguing against GMO's is this:

However, a 2009 review in Nutrition Reviews found that although most studies concluded that GM foods do not differ in nutrition or cause any detectable toxic effects in animals, some studies did report adverse changes at a cellular level caused by some GM foods, concluding that "More scientific effort and investigation is needed to ensure that consumption of GM foods is not likely to provoke any form of health problem".


Which basically means more research is needed before you can out right say that GMO'S are safe, which is a fair comment.

when given a choice, many animals avoid them. Rats turn their noses up at genetically modified foods

How did they get this evidence? the only article I could find to back up their claim was this one:

about high school students testing junk food vs health food

Guess who it was written by? non other than the Institute for Responsible Technology the people who are sponsoring the competition.

Their stupid hyperbolic statements designed to create a reaction because the single party group assumes that natural = better.


I really, really dont think threadless should be supporting this competition at all, if they were they should be sponsoring another comp thats in support of gm's because the issue is a debate.

I'm all for threadless supporting charities but not Advocacy groups.


The problem is, this isn't a black and white issue their are plenty of arguments in support of using genetic modification to improve plants.

One our population is on the verge of hitting 7 Billion people, by 2050 they predict we'll hit around 10.5 billion people.

national geographic article on population 7 billion

We already struggle to support 6 billion people, in fact theres an entire population group (the bottom billion) that live well below the poverty line and are still starving today,

how are we expected to feed a further 4 billion? most of which are coming from developing countries?

Decades from now, there will likely be two billion more mouths to feed, mostly in poor countries.

national geographic article on population 7 billion

We have roughly the same amount of space to feed ourselves but almost double the amount of mouths to feed, we've already pushed the limits of the Green Revolution and now were looking for the next one.

Genetically modified crops may very well be the answer:

Paul Collier

We dont really know because the research is still in its early days , so until we actually get scientific evidence to back up the claims its a debate.

And threadless shouldnt be involved in it.

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SJ27
SJ27 on Aug 02 '11 at 6:17am
I don't like the GM food, but I totally agree that Threadless should not be associating itself with these sorts of groups.
stubby43
stubby43 on Aug 02 '11 at 6:20am
I'll admit right now that I am in support of GM foods but I recognise that their is a debate and there are other options to increase food supplies and GM might not be the best but groups like this arent willing to debate anything, its single issue politics and any other view is wrong.

tesco
   tesco on Aug 02 '11 at 6:33am
I agree with you Phil. I guess people are easily to be swayed by the organic = better myth. It pisses me off when GM food gets bad press like this, considering the technology behind it goes someway to feeding the 900+ million hungry people on this planet.
tesco
   tesco on Aug 02 '11 at 6:36am
It's tin-foil hat time at the Institute for Responsible Technology
gumbolimbo
   gumbolimbo on Aug 02 '11 at 6:39am
I've some doubts about gen food, but can see the advantages too.

Either way, I don't think this is a wise choice for a Threadless challenge, for reasons mentioned above.
gumbolimbo
   gumbolimbo on Aug 02 '11 at 6:39am
I've some doubts about gen food, but can see the advantages too.

Either way, I don't think this is a wise choice for a Threadless challenge, for reasons mentioned above.
The Paper Crane
   The Paper Crane on Aug 02 '11 at 6:42am
Who really gains from GMO?
Who is pushing for more GM crops, using the weak argument that we will all starve to death in the future???
I personally do not fell the money spent on research and potential risks to biodiversity and natural ecosystems out-ways the return in yields, which have proved marginal.

I am sceptical about the whole industry as I feel it leans towards more chemical dependancy for crops and in return farmers $$.

If farmers are forced to market on volume over quality then the consumer has not gained anything. Not to mention the potential health hazards of consuming GM foods and the concoction of chemicals required to produce them.

I say stick your neck out threadless!
tesco
   tesco on Aug 02 '11 at 6:45am
I look forward to the forthcoming homeopathy competition
martiandrivein
   martiandrivein on Aug 02 '11 at 6:45am
I didn't read this at all, but if GM foods are one step closer to me getting some sort of radiation and becoming a superhero, I'm for them.
gumbolimbo
   gumbolimbo on Aug 02 '11 at 6:46am
Next time they may stick out their neck for a cause you can't get behind. Say, creationism or something like that.

martiandrivein
   martiandrivein on Aug 02 '11 at 6:49am
hahaha I can see "Threadless loves scientology" going over real well.
applesforjonah
applesforjonah on Aug 02 '11 at 6:52am
I haven't studied much about GMO companies, like Mansato, but I did watch a documentary once. Food, INC. was enough to scare me to try not to use their products. But that documentary could have been made by the companies on the other side of the debate.
But there is someone that I would follow in the debate that says we should avoid the genetically modified foods because he commissions third party tests and is very objective in his research. Mercola.com

But, I guess that's not what you're really arguing, right? You're mainly concerned with Threadless partnering up with an advocacy group and not a charity?
SJ27
SJ27 on Aug 02 '11 at 6:56am
I think the main problem with GM food is there's really no way to keep it under control. GM crops could very easily cross-pollinate with regular crops via wind, birds, insects or whatever other dispersal methods and basically contaminate those crops, making them GM too essentially. They could potentially be very hardy weeds too if they get out of the farms and into wilderness.

But that's one side of the issue and I think Threadless taking a stance on one side of an issue is bad. I guess I've never been opposed to them supporting "the environment" in challenges before, but taking a side on a very specific issue within that makes me uncomfortable. It's just too political and I don't think Threadless should be about that.

And I really don't like Causes much at all, the prize for this is what, $500? Maybe people would take a prize cut if they were working for a charity, but this is just spec for a political lobby group.
Boycey
Boycey on Aug 02 '11 at 7:00am
I also agree with the cause. Although, the promo blog about it could be re-written imho.

I think it's a great cause and I support it, unfortunately organic crops are contaminated as they all share soil and water sources with chemicals and pollutants to some degree.

I would never bother buying organic produce, but I support this cause because I don't think scientists know enough about mixing living animals and plants or even about the long term effects on humans and the environment of mixing food types on a microscopic/ bio-genetic level.

If the governments of the world and rich owners of companies really wanted to feed the world, they could and it wouldn't need a potentially hazardous method of food production to do it.

I'm not against the progress of Science, but for me there is some things that people just don't know enough about to deal with, it's not like people can foresee the effects of GM food in the future.

We live in a chemical world, but if crops were to become hazardous, then big businesses could control everything or it could kill off all living things, found in nature.

Keep food natural! (ish).
The Paper Crane
   The Paper Crane on Aug 02 '11 at 7:05am
I appreciate what you are all saying but what is your concern with a business alining themselves with organisations on one side of the argument. If they felt passionate about it then why not. You can't please everybody all of the time yet and you can't just sit on the fence and always play it safe.
I am not going to be supportive about everything threadless decides to do, but at the same time I am not going to get upset or opinionated when something does not sit perfectly with my believes or principles.
fatheed
   fatheed on Aug 02 '11 at 7:05am
I'm holding out for Threadless Loves Euthanasia.
fatheed
   fatheed on Aug 02 '11 at 7:06am
Oh, iPad 2.

*starts drawing corn*
Morkki
   Morkki on Aug 02 '11 at 7:06am
Threadless Hates Stem Cell Research
bottleHeD
bottleHeD on Aug 02 '11 at 7:06am
My first thought was to say "Fuck it, lemme at the 2000$". My second thought never got through.
SJ27
SJ27 on Aug 02 '11 at 7:10am
It's like when they wanted to do the Loves Barack Obama.
The Paper Crane
   The Paper Crane on Aug 02 '11 at 7:10am
kaloysterdate on Aug 2, 2011time at 06:39:06 now prepare for insane quantity of food-with-faces subs!
gumbolimbo
   gumbolimbo on Aug 02 '11 at 7:11am
I guess it's just my chakra riding up my arse today, getting me all irritated over the matter.
[+duracell-]
[+duracell-] on Aug 02 '11 at 7:21am
SJ27 on Aug 02 '11 at 6:56am
But that's one side of the issue and I think Threadless taking a stance on one side of an issue is bad. I guess I've never been opposed to them supporting "the environment" in challenges before, but taking a side on a very specific issue within that makes me uncomfortable. It's just too political and I don't think Threadless should be about that.


They've already done this a bunch of times. I don't have a problem with supporting causes but yeah, it would probably be wise for from them to support obvious stuff that most people would go along with. Not this half and half, highly debatable/political stuff.


And I really don't like Causes much at all, the prize for this is what, $500? Maybe people would take a prize cut if they were working for a charity, but this is just spec for a political lobby group.


That's my main problem with this. I see $500, and I'm like, "Next."
mullmuggins
mullmuggins on Aug 02 '11 at 7:24am
My thoughts are that there's genuine reason to be concerned about GM food, even if it's still an open debate, and if the peeps at threadless feel strongly about it, then good on them for nailing their colours to the mast.

So basically what papercrane said, I guess :/
bottleHeD
bottleHeD on Aug 02 '11 at 7:26am
Only 500 bucks, drat!
The Paper Crane
   The Paper Crane on Aug 02 '11 at 7:29am
Perhaps they should aline themselves with Monsanto for the next challenge just to even things out. I am sure the prize money would be much more impressive too $$$$$$$
SJ27
SJ27 on Aug 02 '11 at 7:45am
But does every single person at Threadless believe in this? Did they take sone sort of vote? I wouldn't want a company I worked for taking a stance on an issue that "they" feel strongly about. It'd be like working for News Ltd.
mullmuggins
mullmuggins on Aug 02 '11 at 7:50am
I obviously have no idea how they decide on which causes/challenges to promote, but I don't see that it's a big deal. They aren't banning their employees from eating GM food. My work make frequent donations to political and religious charities that I don't align myself with (and vehemently disagree with in some cases) - as do most companies.

I don't get the News Ltd reference either?
SJ27
SJ27 on Aug 02 '11 at 7:54am
Because News Ltd take a political stance when they should be quiet.
Manupix
Manupix on Aug 02 '11 at 8:00am
Makes me uneasy too. GMO is a serious issue (whichever side you're on) and no far flung scary unsupported claims nor teeshirt-wearing is going to further the necessary debate / action.

Also taking for granted that the whole community leans for the same side is somewhat condescending.

Because I'm not that good at writing long serious posts in English, I'll just quote this science blogger who kind of sums up my own position well enough:

I can readily identify with the antipathy. I’m no friend of big biotech. I think GM has created a dangerous powershift in agriculture in the favour of multinational biotechnology corporations, and “terminator seeds”, which die at the end of the season, are a venal way to increase farmers’ dependency. Monsanto are clearly a nasty company (apart from anything else they made Agent Orange).

So I’m cautious about GM, and each crop needs to be assessed on a case by case basis, but they seem safe overall. If there’s something new and frightening, then I want to see it published, in full, so we can all sit down and get frightened by it together, on the basis of well conducted research that we can see and read. Before that, I’m not sure anyone’s very well served by scare headlines about cancer.
mullmuggins
mullmuggins on Aug 02 '11 at 8:01am
News Ltd is a part of News International?
mullmuggins
mullmuggins on Aug 02 '11 at 8:03am
Also taking for granted that the whole community leans for the same side is somewhat condescending.

I don't think by putting this challenge up they are saying that everyone on here will agree with the viewpoint. No one will be forced to design for it or buy the shirt.
The Paper Crane
   The Paper Crane on Aug 02 '11 at 8:05am
News papers taking a political stance - surely not!!!

and I second mm's point above^
randyotter3000
   randyotter3000 on Aug 02 '11 at 8:11am
Also taking for granted that the whole community leans for the same side is somewhat condescending.


Does feel a litttle bit like that, taking in consideration that the staff represents the community and ultimately chooses challenges they think we can relate to and enjoy
SJ27
SJ27 on Aug 02 '11 at 8:15am
News Ltd is News Corp's Australian publisher, the equivalent of News International in the UK.
tesco
   tesco on Aug 02 '11 at 8:16am
Terminator seeds are nothing new. I know this because I just listened to this podcast. (starts about half way through)
mullmuggins
mullmuggins on Aug 02 '11 at 8:16am
Dang, you normally accuse them of pandering to the masses. They do something seen as more niche and you're not happy because it doesn't represent the majority view?
tesco
   tesco on Aug 02 '11 at 8:17am
Murdoch picks the scariest names for his companies
mullmuggins
mullmuggins on Aug 02 '11 at 8:17am
ok, SJ. I still don't see the connection.
martiandrivein
   martiandrivein on Aug 02 '11 at 8:18am
I guess the difference between Threadless and the government, is we elect government, and thus are subjected to what they vote on, where as Threadless is in the private sector, and you don't have to design for things you don't believe in.
Gar0
   Gar0 on Aug 02 '11 at 8:20am
I don't think scientists know enough about mixing living animals and plants or even about the long term effects on humans and the environment of mixing food types on a microscopic/ bio-genetic level.

But that's the fun part, and that's why I'm investing in Splice-O-Life Inc. "The Future Has Just Been Born"
SJ27
SJ27 on Aug 02 '11 at 8:43am
mullmuggins on Aug 02 '11 at 8:17am
ok, SJ. I still don't see the connection.


I don't believe companies should be making political statements on behalf of their employees and frankly their customers. So if News Ltd takes a stance against a carbon tax, Threadless taking a stance against GM food is the same thing. The decision gets made somewhere in the organisation and then all employees by association toe that line and it assumes all customers either feel the same way or may be converted. I don't really think it's fair to say that if Threadless feels strongly about an issue they should support it, because a company is an organisation made up of a lot of people with differing views. I do not believe a company should be allowed to donate to politics and support political causes. I would not want to work at a company that did. I'd be responsible for supporting the cause by supporting the company through my work and would also feel pressure to keep my views to myself and that sucks. If the bosses want to support something they can express their opinions as individuals and donate their own money, not misuse the company.

I don't think Threadless is listening to our voicemails.
mullmuggins
mullmuggins on Aug 02 '11 at 8:50am
I guess we just think differently about what an organisation does vs the individual.

I don't feel that my company's decision to, for example, support the Conservative Party, has any bearing on my views or their expectation of my views. I am not simply an extension of the company I work for.

If I had to find a job in a company that tallied with all of my beliefs, I would never be employed.
The Paper Crane
   The Paper Crane on Aug 02 '11 at 8:57am
SJ27 - So in the same vain should a company not be allowed to donate to a charity?
SJ27
SJ27 on Aug 02 '11 at 9:10am
But it shouldn't have to be that way. If companies refrained from making political statements and donating money to political causes, you wouldn't have to worry either way about finding a company compatible with your beliefs because as a company they would have none.
SJ27
SJ27 on Aug 02 '11 at 9:13am
Charites are fine.
mullmuggins
mullmuggins on Aug 02 '11 at 9:17am
I don't worry about it, because I don't think the two are related.

Companies make all sorts of donations for all sorts of reasons - tax breaks, etc.

Anyway, at the very least, this challenge has opened up an interesting debate about GM food. It's prompted me to read a bit about the subject, and I guess a few other people as well.
The Paper Crane
   The Paper Crane on Aug 02 '11 at 9:25am
It is a valid point, I agree that companies should not donate to political parties. Rather, political parties should not take hand outs to support their campaigns and therefore have an advantage over other parties.
However if a company is made up of many people, each with different backgrounds, believes, principles, morals, political alignments etc, then can a company not reflect that diversity back.
Or do you feel companies and organisations should all be impartial and consensus based.
stubby43
stubby43 on Aug 02 '11 at 9:39am
I tweeted skaw/jake a couple of hours ago and I just got a reply:


@Stubby43 thx for raising the issue, a lot of us believe in this cause but its merits should definitely be debated


I don't really know what to make of that response because the competition only shows one side of the argument at its most heavily biased, (to the point where they just make stuff up), if they really want a debate shouldn't they be posting a competition on the opposition?

You could make it fair by only allowing the apposing side to match it.
SJ27
SJ27 on Aug 02 '11 at 9:39am
I don't know.

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