Profile for stubby43 - Is threadless spec work? - how much of a design does threadless own? clarifcation needed

stubby43 aka Phil is a 25.42 year old boy, has been a member since December 22, 2006, has scored 3,809 submissions, giving an average score of 2.65, helping 191 designs get printed.

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Mar 10 '09 by stubby43
43 Comments
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Is threadless spec work? - how much of a design does threadless own? clarifcation needed

Is threadless spec work?

Ok so instead of doing homework I've been reading blogs and I stumbled across Jeffreys blog and another guy called Andrew Hyde who both discussed the issue of spec work.

What I found interesting, more than the debate over spec work being good or bad its that Jeffrey doesnt consider threadless to be spec work.

"Spec Work
Hey there millions of fans, we know some of you are artists! We�re putting out a new album called �Zebras Are Awesome�. Wanna meet us and take home $500? Design a tee shirt with Zebras on it, be sure to use our logo in the artwork, then submit it to us. The one we like best is the winner!

Crowdsourcing
Hey there millions of fans, we�re putting out a new album called �Zebras Are Awesome�. We know some of you are artists! Wanna meet us and take home $500? To celebrate our new album, we want you to design and submit a tee inspired by your love for us.All of the fans will tell us which one they like best and we�ll pick one! "

But surely thats exactly what threadless is? after all they ask individuals to produce designs with the promise of printing and awarding a cash prize for the lucky few (whilst the majority dont get printed).

My feeling is that threadless is spec work but its an example of a good kind of spec work.

olie! on Mar 10 '09 at 4:20pm

what is spec work?

mezo on Mar 10 '09 at 4:21pm

Yes. It is. It's doing design without a promise of payment.

mezo on Mar 10 '09 at 4:21pm

ALL contest sites are spec work.

Steve The Great on Mar 10 '09 at 4:23pm

yeah. but i don't know that anyone is wholly dependent on threadless to feed their family. it would seem to me to be foolish to do this kind of thing for the money, although as these things go I think threadless pays very well.

stubby43 on Mar 10 '09 at 4:24pm

AIGA defines it as "he practice of requesting that design work be produced and submitted on a speculative basis in order to be considered for acceptance on a project".

So if you use that defintion then threadless isnt spec work because your not being considered for acceptance on a project.

Roostersauce on Mar 10 '09 at 4:25pm

I think threadless is a mix of the two.

Threadless definitely asks the community which they feel are the best shirts to be printed, but in the end the staff picks the shirts they want to print.

letsmakeart on Mar 10 '09 at 4:25pm

agree with mezo, just because it looks fancy and happy doesn't mean it's not spec work.

And steve, that's stupid.

There are people that wholly depend on ILLUSTRATION to feed their family, but other companies that ask for spec work - noone relies on them to feed their family either. That isn't a criteria.

letsmakeart on Mar 10 '09 at 4:26pm

"So if you use that defintion then threadless isnt spec work because your not being considered for acceptance on a project."

Yes it is. A t-shirt design and print run is a "project".

Steve The Great on Mar 10 '09 at 4:30pm

it might have been a little irrelevant. it was not stupid and I don't appreciate you calling it that.

phones on Mar 10 '09 at 4:31pm

i learnt the term spec work 5 seconds ago but i have to agree with arty and mezo- the tshirt is the project

olie! on Mar 10 '09 at 4:32pm

That's just what matt does, don't take it personally

letsmakeart on Mar 10 '09 at 4:33pm

It is because you're saying threadless is different as a result of a criteria that is consistant across nearly all spec work.

Basically saying... that thing is different because it is the same.

No one appreciates having their idea called stupid, so I am not surprised.

letsmakeart on Mar 10 '09 at 4:34pm

He knows what I do, he's just being a wuss.

Steve The Great on Mar 10 '09 at 4:35pm

haha!

stubby43 on Mar 10 '09 at 4:37pm

I'm really confused about the whole issue as this blog shows but I think part of the problem is the deffinition of spec work, if you take it to mean asking for a design with no promise of payment (or it being used) then yes it is.

But all threadless does is ask for a design it puts no other requirements on it and the artist is welcome to use the design else where even if it is picked.

olie! on Mar 10 '09 at 4:38pm

But all threadless does is ask for a design it puts no other requirements on it and the artist is welcome to use the design else where even if it is picked.

I don't think this is correct.

mezo on Mar 10 '09 at 4:38pm

I figure that "being considered" is what happens after you agree to the legal terms and hit the submit button and the "acceptance" part is winning and "project" is the design.

shirtflirt on Mar 10 '09 at 4:41pm

definitely spec work.

mezo on Mar 10 '09 at 4:41pm

I've done little spec work for companies and oftentimes, they don't specify what they want. Sometimes they'll give out ideas or a direction. Kinda like, Threadless' regular contest versus the Loves contests.

tesco on Mar 10 '09 at 4:41pm

It's witchcraft

stubby43 on Mar 10 '09 at 4:41pm

It used to be the case, if its not now then its changed.

Threadless used to say that they own the rights to print it on a tee shirt and nothing else, theres also a certain time period that comes up when you can submit a design to other companies.

Back on topic, I'm not sure threadless completly fits the definition of crowd sourcing. Crowd sourcing in its purest sense is wikipedia and the linux operating system.

No one owns them and its based on people adding a little bit of code/entry here and their with people editing it and improving it by its very nature threadless cant do that.

mezo on Mar 10 '09 at 4:43pm

Tesco is a wiseman. Wise guy. Fall Out Boy.

shirtflirt on Mar 10 '09 at 4:44pm

the mexican wave is crowd sourcing at it's finest.

letsmakeart on Mar 10 '09 at 4:47pm

you can use it elsewhere but not on t-shirts / upper half clothing and possibly not on prints (not sure as I thought this was a noteable omission from the contract I signed for the inside you print).

None the less, if you pitch a logo to some company that wants a logo designed, nothing says you can't use that logo / elements elsewhere if your pitch isn't successful.

letsmakeart on Mar 10 '09 at 4:48pm

shirtflirt = slogan

olie! on Mar 10 '09 at 4:49pm

I thought you could still use the design in print even if it got picked, unless it also got picked here to be a poster print?

mezo on Mar 10 '09 at 4:57pm

Negative:

"If your Design is selected for use by Threadless.com, you acknowledge that you assign to skinnyCorp LLC and its subsidiaries and affiliates (hereinafter collectively "Threadless.com") the entire right, title, and interest in and to the copyright in your Design..."

bsweber on Mar 10 '09 at 4:57pm

*posts opinion*

stubby43 on Mar 10 '09 at 4:59pm

I guess that makes sense, the fact is threadless is diversifying its products so it had to change.

fatheed on Mar 10 '09 at 5:06pm

cont. from mezo's excerpt:

"...including the right to sue for past infringement and the right to further sublicense the Design, for its sole and exclusive use on and in connection with the Items."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

footnote:

By selecting "I Agree" below and in consideration of Threadless.com evaluating your Design (hereinafter the "Design") for its possible use on clothing and wall graphics (the "Items"), you agree to the following terms and conditions ("Design Submission Terms and Conditions")...

fatheed on Mar 10 '09 at 5:09pm

I would like some clarificatino on those T&C though. It seems they changed just in Feb and I'm sure it's worded differently than before.

Does Threadless now own the design in it's entirety, of only for use on tees and wall graphics? Stupid legal jargon.

mezo on Mar 10 '09 at 5:11pm

But you can't go out and make profit on a design Threadless has bought, right? Is Olly selling that mug? I tote want one.

stubby43 on Mar 10 '09 at 5:11pm

changed the title a little bit so we can get some clarifcation.

Not that it really affects me, since the one design I've been a apart of will never be printed but still useful for the rest of you.

Also I still havent done any home work.

mezo on Mar 10 '09 at 5:12pm

fatheed on Mar 10 '09 at 5:09pm

Stupid legal jargon.

INDEED!

fatheed on Mar 10 '09 at 5:12pm

Well, I can't exactly see Olly making a loss on that one.

mezo on Mar 10 '09 at 5:13pm

Oh, so he IS selling them? Hm. Interesting.

tesco on Mar 10 '09 at 5:19pm

I;ve never read the T&C's. My soul might legally belong to skinnycorp for all I know.

olie! on Mar 10 '09 at 5:38pm

I think a simple answer (maybe?) is if a design gets picked you are not allowed to use the design outside of Threadless for anything that would make a profit. Or maybe it's anything at all. I dunno.

shirtflirt on Mar 10 '09 at 5:42pm

i should sub that eh, bphone?

fatheed on Mar 10 '09 at 5:47pm

The thing that always set Threadless apart in my mind was that the design remained yours apart from use on a tee and (more recently) art prints. Although it seems art prints are no longer with us. RIP art prints. I did not know you well.

spacesick 2 on Mar 10 '09 at 5:50pm

Threadless is the happiest place on earth!

letsmakeart on Mar 10 '09 at 5:53pm

Probably, it won't win because people are dumb but if you don't sub it and someone else does, the law of the universes says that they will win just to piss you off.

shirtflirt on Mar 10 '09 at 6:06pm

hahaha! thanx dude you crack me up as always.

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