U.S. man who prayed while daughter died convicted of homicide
A Wisconsin man who prayed instead of seeking medical care while his 11-year-old daughter died was found guilty Saturday of second-degree reckless homicide.
Dale Neumann, 47, was convicted in the 2003 death of his daughter, Madeline, from undiagnosed diabetes.
Prosecutors said the girl couldn't walk, talk, eat or speak. But instead of taking her to hospital, people surrounded her and prayed while she lay on the floor of the family's home in rural Weston, Wis. Someone called 911 when she stopped breathing.
Neumann's wife Leilani, 41, was convicted of the same charge in the spring and is scheduled for sentencing Oct. 6. Both face up to 25 years in prison.
Neumann, who once studied to be a Pentecostal minister, testified Thursday that he believed God would heal his daughter and he never expected her to die. God promises in the Bible to heal, he said.
"If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God," Neumann testified. "I am not believing what he said he would do."
Neumann said he thought Madeline had the flu or a fever, and several relatives and family friends testified they also didn't realize how sick she was.
Marathon County Assistant District Attorney LaMont Jacobson told jurors Friday that Neumann was "overwhelmed by pride" in his interpretation of the Bible and selfishly let Madeline die as a test of faith. Neumann knew he should have taken his daughter to a doctor and minimized her illness when speaking with investigators, Jacobson said.
Doctors testified that Madeline would have had a good chance of survival if she had received medical care, including insulin and fluids, before she stopped breathing.
The six-man, six-woman jury deliberated about 15 hours over two days before convicting Neumann.
I don't mind when people have strongly held beliefs, but when others begin to suffer because of those beliefs it has gone too far.
This is why there are laws that state that you cannot deny a child necessary medical treatment for religious purposes. I can't believe we need those laws...
There came a big flood, and the water around Bhola's house was rising steadily..
Bhola was standing on the porch, watching water rising all around him, when a man in a boat came along and called to Bhola, "Get in the boat and I'll get you out of here. Bhola replied, "No thanks, God will save me."
Bhola went into the house, and the water was starting to pour in. So, he went up to the second floor.
As he looked out, another man in a boat came along, and he called to Bhola, "Get in the boat and I'll get you out of here."
Again, Bhola replied, "No thanks. God will save me."
The water kept rising. So, Bhola got out onto the roof.
A helicopter flew over, and the pilot called down to Bhola, "I'll drop you a rope,grab onto it, and I'll get you out of here."
Again Bhola replied, "No thanks. God will save me."
The water rose and rose, and soon nearly covered the whole house. Bhola fell in, and drowned.
When he arrived in Heaven, he saw God, and asked Him, "Why didn't you save me from that terrible flood? Did I not show you my faith?"
With a loving but irritated tone God replied, "What more would you have me do? I sent people in two boats and a helicopter?"
I think Mike B.'s story makes a succinct point..... Who says the medics/docs/hospital weren't the thing God was sending along to help??? Soooo many things can be messed up when left to human interpretation... I can't say this is the first, and it definitely won't be the last.
mike bautista on Aug 02 '09 at 1:57am
There came a big flood, and the water around Bhola's house was rising steadily..
Bhola was standing on the porch, watching water rising all around him, when a man in a boat came along and called to Bhola, "Get in the boat and I'll get you out of here. Bhola replied, "No thanks, God will save me."
Bhola went into the house, and the water was starting to pour in. So, he went up to the second floor.
As he looked out, another man in a boat came along, and he called to Bhola, "Get in the boat and I'll get you out of here."
Again, Bhola replied, "No thanks. God will save me."
The water kept rising. So, Bhola got out onto the roof.
A helicopter flew over, and the pilot called down to Bhola, "I'll drop you a rope,grab onto it, and I'll get you out of here."
Again Bhola replied, "No thanks. God will save me."
The water rose and rose, and soon nearly covered the whole house. Bhola fell in, and drowned.
Yeah, that's been big news here for a while. Most of my family is Christian but we still see doctors. The disconnect between faith and common sense some people have is astounding.
what a dick!! he really believed god would save her...sorry good people but there aint no such thing as god!! religions the biggest practical joke ever! FACT!
i'm just saying it for personal reasons....my gran died of cancer 10 years ago in the most horrific way possible....even i prayed and no one "saved" her....religions just there to make you feel and believe in something instead good old belief in yourself....that and religions the start of pretty much all wars.
Ive been thorugh some really bad points in my life, growing up in a poor neighborhood that the only thing that got me throught was bellieving in god, but everyone will always have a different outlook in religion and life because everyone is raised different. so posting something like some people make me sick, I dont disagree but dont agree with you either.
Im almost 100% sure they didnt mean no harm to their daughter. even tho some bad decisions were made, this story just makes me sad. :(
Religion (organized religion, as least) and God are largely two separate entities. That's all I'll say. This isn't the best format for any theological debate.
I also do not believe they "meant" any harm, but that doesn't meant that they didn't cause ultimate harm. their beliefs caused the death of their daughter. we live in a society with laws, if you want to attempt to put your religious beliefs before those laws, either petition your local congressman move to a place where you can do as you please. That little girl needed treatment and they denied her. They will face the consequences of their actions now, in this life.
they shoulda called 911, they did take their beliefs to the extreme, but eitherway you dont really know their background and life 100% to udge them, even tho the story offcourse makes them seem like theyre super fucked up.
if you were raised to belive something its almost impossible to change that, thats all Im saying.
I will still pray for them, and their daughter who passed away
but then again there is always news of people dying because of doctors fucking up or something right? Im not saying they were right for doing what they did, just saying one shouldnt judge people without being in their shoes, either way the story is fucked up, but then again the whole world is
i would never see a loved one in agony without calling for help.....all i'm saying realistically is getting on your knees and praying aint going to do jackshit....get the paramedics round first thing!
my wife is really really religious and me and her argue all the time about it, cause Im not 100% religious like she is, I dont go to church every sunday, but she does and she takes my daughter, I still think church and religion is good noi matter what. how can something be bad if all the bible does is try to better you? try to keep you from doing bad? how can that be wrong?
I feel soemtimes like its a teacher telling me whats right and I feel like I wanna be a rebel and disobery either way.
sorry I kept ranting about something I know i's probably an endless arguement, maybe I should drop this as well
Neumann said he thought Madeline had the flu or a fever, and several relatives and family friends testified they also didn't realize how sick she was.
so offcourse I think if they as wel thought she was that sick they woulda called for help, I think the article is just going more on sided and making the reader go one sides as well
If a doctor kills someone, they usually pay for it with their jobs or lots and lots of money, so there is still accountability. If someone causes someone else' death, accidental or otherwise, some sort of action needs to be taken. Otherwise drunk drivers would never be prosecuted.
But if the disease was undiagnosed they can't be held at fault. If doctors told her that she had diabetes and how to recognise her being in a situation where she'd need sugar or insullin and what to do, then it would be negligent of them to withold treatment if it happened. But for all they knew, she was just sick. When someone isn't breathing, that's an emergencey and they did get the papramedics around. We can't expect laypeople to diagnose undiagnosed conditions in people.
There are only two points to this story
1) 11 year old is dead
2)A Wisconsin man who prayed instead of seeking medical care while his 11-year-old daughter died was found guilty Saturday of second-degree reckless homicide.
all Im saying is the title bothered me a bit, Im not disagreeing with you guys, ust saying maybe the girl didnt look that sick, not being familair with diabetes, could have easily led to them just praying that she got better, without knowing she was truly sick
If your child is basically in a comatose state (she couldn't walk, talk, communicate etc.), that is a little more than just average sickness. I'm sure her state was declining for several days beforehand, so at some point it becomes negligent to not do anything, even if it's just calling a doctor to ask about what they should look for in case it's serious.
robroy05 - shit offcourse t is fucked up that she died, but the parents and also relatives didnt know she was that sick.
I personally take my daughter to the hospital when she gets a lil bumo or soemshit on her leg, bu we're all human we all make mistakes, doctors, teachers, priest, you, me whatever
they did not mean for anything to happen to their daughter, it is really fucked up situation, but even more fucked up theyre getting procecuted after she died.
I personally if somthing like that happen to my daughter, I dont know what I would do, I would rather be dead, I dunno, just a really crappy story
alexmdc on Aug 02 '09 at 4:33am
robroy05 - shit offcourse t is fucked up that she died, but the parents and also relatives didn't know she was that sick.
You don't catch diabetes like a common cold. the girl didn't get sick overnight. We may not know the whole story, but the judge and jury did. Sorry, I didn't mean to go after anyone here, I promise. You're right, crappy, crappy story :(
all Im trying to say is you really cant sit there and judge someone thats all, even tho Im guilty of judging people without knowing the full storysometimes, but you will never know what really happened 100% unless you were in their shoes
also im not trying to go after anyone here, ust felt really bad for both the parents, being a parent myself, and offcourse the lil dying when she coulda maybe had another chance
If they'd seen this before and she'd got better on her own then they're even less to blame because they'd have reason to assume it would happen the same way again. So if something changed which warranted them calling an ambulance and they did, good on them. It seems like they were giving her a lot of attention if they would notice her stop breathing.
It is a pretty awful story, and I agree, we can't really judge, but can you really not prosecute them? People are killed all the time by accident, and people go to jail for it. Is the fact that parents and religion were involved really that much of a difference maker?
That could have been diagnosed and treated probably years in advance of it killing her. Diabetes isn't an over-night deal. It takes a while to kill you.
Aug 02 '09 by
This is why there are laws that state that you cannot deny a child necessary medical treatment for religious purposes. I can't believe we need those laws...