that's true the first shirts were not joke shirts.

I hope Enkel doesn't get mad at me for this (you know I love your stuff, man), but this, look at it:



What's the big idea? It's just a boat on some waves, just that, but the execution is pretty well done, plus it uses the overpopular watercolours, so it got a great score and printed.

And then there's this:



Which is also really well done, it's also very visually appealing, and it has a great, strong concept/narrative to it, and it's non-jokey/punny, for everypne that thinks that's what equals concept.

There's also stuff like this, that to some people might be all about the "LOL, funny!", but personally I don't see it as a funny tee, but as a great idea with equally great execution that happens to have a funny side to it.



Personally, I've never bought a tee because I thought it was funny, I don't give a shit if the designs I wear make people laugh, if I don't like the idea behind it I don't care how funny it is, and it's certainly not a decidng factor when I pick designs to purchase.

Stay off the beer!

why attach labels?

because they're useful? why else?

hey guys, let's stop organizing things. no more good food, bad food, you just have to know WHICH food to eat. we're not even going to differentiate between food and things that aren't food anymore. you just have to know WHAT to eat.
cuz y label stuff??

very great discussion and point too!!!

Hey Jellyes, your comment made me very happy :)

Great discussion!

Hey - I came back to a good discussion!

To answer a few questions - by 'concept-driven' I didn't mean funny. 'Funny' in itself is a subjective quantity. I suppose there is a prevalence of humour in concept based designs - but, for example... my 'Be Cool' design is one that I consider to be concept based (based on the idea that the white of the tee is like a refrigerator and the magnetic letters spell out a slogan that echoes this idea, blah blah blah) but it's not a design that is meant to be funny, per se.

What I meant was that for me, only 1 of the 6 designs this week is concept driven. Driven being the operative word. I don't mean to say that the aesthetic designs are lacking in concept. There is a great deal of thought that goes into most artwork that people produce here on Threadless and in the broader sense of art.

And yes - there's not a black and white distinction. Seperating the two is not a science. I just figure that a concept driven design is usually one that can be doodled - like a scribbled cartoon in a newspaper (see awesome example)



and people could look at it and understand the message or the joke or the idea and find it funny or meaningful without requiring it to be rendered perfectly. If I quickly doodled either of these:



People would tell say



That's a pretty crass way to define what I mean by conept-driven vs. aesthetic driven.

In the last 6 months there has been a boom in aesthetic driven designs. These are usually designs that are technically brilliant. Fantastic pieces of artwork that are made possible by the advent of sim process and fancy inks - like AJ mentioned. They are they kind of thing that it is almost impossible to give a bad score to. Indeed, I end up giving 4s and 5s to a lot of the aesthetic driven stuff! But it seems to me that it's dominance in the scoring makes it difficult to compete with concept-driven stuff.

This has compounded the demise of the concept based design on Threadless for me. I personally have already taken a concept design to another company when I would have had no hestitation to submit it to Threadless 6 months ago.

Part of me feels that the lower voter numbers are contributing to this phenomenom. I don' know how.... but low voter numbers and the liberal media are somehow to blame.

See the difference from last year to this year for yourself, yo: Top 25 scores for 2008, Top scores for 2009 so far.

And it's not surprising to me that the first Threadless tees were not joke tees. The pool of submitters was very small at that point and vector graphic stuff was the order of the day.

Concept based tees are the ones that Threadless grew on. They are the tees that got blogged about and appeared in magazines and they are the tees that people tend to talk about and it's how they are how the gospel of Threadless spread. My introduction to Threadless was a mate of mine wearing a Glennz tee that I thought was hilarious and we started chatting about Threadless.

I know these tees have a massive head start on any of the new ones, but I can't see any of the aesthetic-driven designs ever getting close to these designs in terms of popularity (although flowers in the attic is probably an aesthetic driven design imo).



Maybe I'm horribly wrong, but I feel like these designs have an almost timeless appeal. The ideas are endearing and the artwork is uncomplicated. Where as a lot of the stuff being printed now - whilst being really awesome artwork - might even start to look badly dated in 6 months.



But maybe not! idunno.

Anyway. Interesting conversation!

Anyone with half a brain loves a good idea (concept). The strength of an idea requires us to relate to the content in a particular way, and succeeds in telling us something new about the subject that we hadn't previously thought of.

I'd say Aled, your Meaning of Life design is, for me, the best example of graphic design I've seen at TL. It's a crystal clear combination of two seemingly unrelated ideas. I bolded that because that is the bedrock of good graphic design generally, always has been, always will be.

Cheers dude :)

you think too much

Word, tesc. You can overthink stuff.

Just go with your gut and shoot from the hip, speak as you find and go with the flow, roll with the punches and get back on your horse.

and drink your milk...and play to the whistle

I like to think

It's not a criticism, it's just a commentary. Nothing I do will ever make you happy, Tont. God knows I've tried. :'(

I'm not so much into the sentimental watercolour styled pieces, there's been such a massive global outpouring of sentimental behaviour recently that I'm up for cold hard lines, and stark designs. I'm also going off the hand drawn school notebook aesthetic that's been cool for the last few years. I'm up for a new manifesto.

does that global hypercolour girl have some comedy pubes poking out of her jeans or am I just projecting my perverted thoughts onto innocent images?

haha. maybe its a merkin

I'm not sure if things are changing, or if I'm falling further down the rabbit hole. I think it might be both.

When it comes to design, I feel like the more odd, select series stuff is becoming more socially accepted to wear nowadays. Then I get kinda bored and want to see what's next. And then I realise I should be making the things that are next. And then I give up and walk off.

Oops. I missed out the part where I felt like every Tom, Dick and Harry was making the odd stuff, just because they could. Instead it came out sounding like I was bashing the Select series.
I guess I meant in the world of art in general, not just tee design.

All shirts are aesthetic driven to a degree. Those of us (me) who can't make their designs all pretty and shit have to develop a way to communicate something daft or whimsical or otherwise in a simple way. That said, i've always prefered simple bold graphics to complicated fancy stuff. I don't want art on my T-Shirt, I want design.

The minute watercolours became popular there was a massive slew of watercolour designs of varying qualities. The same with space-based designs. In the end it just ends up as design trends following design trends and that's whack. People see what's getting printed and follow suit. We (I) need (would like) staff picks/april fools type stuff every week.

I think styles, including concept, read humor, driven tees, come and go in phases of popularity. The funny humor driven tees are great but when a lot are being printed and a lot are being designed its natural for people to become tired with them and to want something totally differen't. That style of tee was popular for years at threadless so you cant expect them to have the same populaity, but im sur ethey will regain the top spot once again.

i feel like a lot of this is simply sour grapes, because i really don't see it as aesthetics trumping concept, at all - but maybe this is because unlike most people here who can fall into one side or the other, instead of you against me i feel like it's you against you and i'm not even counted into the debate haha :)

i mean, it's certainly not that it's become a free-for all for anyone who has an interesting aesthetic; that users can score big with no 'recognizable' concepts. that still frightens most people. i still see really badly done designs score big because they're funny or have an idea that is easily recognizable to the not so design-refined users.

aesthetics alone does not score well, and probably will.

the only aesthetics that score well are watercolours, and even here i would NOT call them an aesthetic choice at all. watercolours have become a concept on their own and that's what bothers me about it. most aren't simply using watercolours as an alternative to whatever other medium, they're drawing/painting an object with watercolours flowing from it and that is the concept.

that will probably fade until watercolour designs find a more reasonable place.

all that aside, it could be that people in general have grown out of the 'funny tee'. i mean, it's not the most fashion forward thing to have a joke on your t-shirt anymore. it's a natural progression if anything, but i also don't see the 'concept' design going extinct, ever. i think it will just be about finding a happier medium of aesthetics + concept, which i think you already have, aled.

a lull in your designs going to print does not mean it's over for you!

a lull in your designs going to print does not mean it's over for you!

ahh! so THATS what this is all about. Losing your touch, eh hotshot? maybe you should make something meaningless and pretencious... I tried getting moss to give it a crack but he wasnt interested.

You think I'm bitter, ginette? This really isn't about me. I anticipated that of supposition but I thought 'fuck it!'. Because that's how I roll. It's just a comment on how things have changed. As you made it about me, I should respond by saying that I haven't put as much energy into thinking up tee designs lately as I have in the previous 2 years. I still feel reasonably confident that if I have a good enough concept, I can turn it into a tee design that people will like and might stand a chance of printing. So it's really not that I feel threatened by the prevalence of mainly arty/aesthetic designs. Some of my favourite tees are not concept ones.

I was just trying to provoke a discussion about how things have changed. It is relevant to me, because my designs mainly rely on concept.

Tont makes a good point about Design vs Art. Perhaps it would have been better to put it on those terms.

And perhaps you're right and the 'joke' tee is on the wane. It clearly is on Threadless, but I personally don't think it is as a concept because it feeds from pop culture which is an unstoppable monster with the broadest appeal. I accept that the tee as a medium for that kind of design certainly won't be popular forever.

The End.

Badly written.

i didn't really mean to say you specifically were bitter but that it seems that there's all around sour grapes whenever something new becomes popular.
also i just want to say that the last bit i wrote, i didn't add that because i thought you were whining about not being printed for awhile or anything but it was specifically in response to somewhere where you said that you brought a design elsewhere instead of printing it here. it was supposed to be supportive instead of condescending :(

haha. ok, I see what you mean. we're still cool. :)

FOR NOW.

Also, part of me feels as though the rise and rise of the arty tee correlates with the diminishing voter numbers. I don't know how to make that into a coherent argument, but I also don't think it's a coincidence. Or maybe I'm over thinking it.

are concept tees actually scoring badly though or are they stagnating and watercolour tees are surmounting them?

or is the company itself just deciding to print less of one in favour of the other?

i'm still unsure there has been that much change unless we are purely talking about nonwatercolour vs watercolour.

I wouldnt worry. You are one of the 5 people in the world who are consistantly good at the jokey shirts, so in the unlikely event that threadless turns into an artfag site, you'll still shine through with the quality haha stuff. Or something. Dont really know what I'm saying or what my opinion is (not sure I have one). Just felt that since I've done nothing but talk bollocks in this blog I should try to contribute something meaningful to the discussion - which I clearly havent. Still, at least this fairly large paragraph looks impressive to anyone scanning the thread.

hahah tesco. and yes, ginette I suppose it's a combination of factors. I POWER SCORED all of the submissions the other day and I think there was a distinct lack of concept designs. So here's my theory: Low voter numbers means higher scores for arty designs - Threadless prints the high scoring designs - people see the printed designs are arty designs and figure that that's what they need to do to get printed - ergo, MOAR arty designs and a general downturn in concept designs.

/theory.

^if this theory is correct, then it's the perfect time to row against the flow. Artsy stuff is like lemon-flavoured beer - just a fad (at least I hope so).

yeah fuck art!

i'm really mystified by the people who think that aesthetic designs are bad or some fad. this is DESIGN folks.

watercolour may be a fad here, but don't mistake 'aesthetic' for a few specific mediums. designs should be aesthetically pleasing no matter what the concept. fatheed's designs have an original aesthetic. he wouldn't be printed as much as he has been if he was awful at design.

just because you don't like this new 'aesthetic' wave of t-shirts doesn't mean they are lesser designs.

hoping that visually pleasing designs is a fad is ridiculous.

i like to wear visually displeasing designs

(somewhat true)

I've also seen plenty of visually appealing designs that have strong concepts behind them, I don't think it has to be one or the other. Examples:




Yes I know, the dreaded watercolor, but the concept is solid. They're not necessarily haha funny concepts but there is an idea besides just how pretty it is. I think threadless will probably move more in that direction. I am in favor of clean vector designs with a good visual gag too though, but I think there will always be a place on this site for those :)

tesco on whenever at whenever
you think too much.

way to reinterpret my comment :)

I was talking about hiding the lack of concept behind intricate linework or watercolours.

the stuff you talk about isn't without a concept. it just lacks a concept you are used to/understand/or like.

if something is pure watercolour or pure intricate linework, that is the concept.

band-it on Jul 01 '09 at 9:56am i like to wear visually displeasing designs

(somewhat true)

ehehe. A lot of what is considered visually pleasing here to most just isn't all that visually pleasing to some.

i'm really mystified by the people who think that aesthetic designs are bad

nobody in this blog has said that aesthetic designs are bad.

I think any design that is done well has a shot here. Yes there is a trend for more artist designs but a simple vector with a great idea can get printed too.

How do you measure concept vs aesthetic? So if something is done with less skill but is a good concept it's a concept driven design? Same concept but done with great skill is aesthetic driven?

I've never started a design without a concept but I try to put my most into it skill wise.

^ No, it's not.

Here is a good example (which I sincerely adore) of amazing skills and zero concept:

above post - a reply to ginette

ZERO CONCEPT??? you're kidding me right?

jill - I'd say in the context of my definition so far, that those to examples would be filed under aesthetic-driven :P. Murphy's Law is funnier with the title, for me - and on it's own it's an epic piece of illustration. And whilst I think Rainforests is a great concept, I wouldn't agree that it was concept-driven. The appeal is very much in the execution. Both are fantastic pieces of art, although I don't think I'd wear either as a tee.

Maybe this is an art vs design debate.

Either way, it's getting me excited!

^Icarus DOES kind of have a concept though, it's based on the story of Icarus and Daedalus, where his wax wings melt from getting too close to the sun. It's a scene from the story. It's based on a story, which is in itself a concept. It's also spectacularly done.

Well, Rainforest is a pun - rain forest, a forest in an umbrella, I would say that falls under traditional threadless pun funtime :)

Concept = idea. Therefore every known thing is a concept.

The difference people are talking about here is that some designs are made with only the technique and/or medium being the thing of interest, and some designs rely solely on the idea to make people think.

Icarus is an illustration of the story of Icarus. It's an idea, and therefore a concept in itself.