hmmm

actually, the composition was the biggest turn off for me... I think if you use existing images you've got to improve them and make them your own.

I think the problem is that if you get printed, you are making money off something that is entirely yours.

NOT entirely yours, you mean?

isn't*

wow, yeah. it is early give me a break!

Uh, I could probably write about this topic for hours, dude.. let's just say that people on Threadless like everything to be original, right down to the typeface used, and punish everything else.

I heard that Mo$$ just actually traces the images he wants to use therefore getting around this conversation. :)

but i feel that that happens all the time (maybe not here, but sometimes here), that people use images and typography that isnt their's and get recognition for it.

upon looking back on the images themselves, i wish i would have changed them up a bit.

"let's just say that people on Threadless like everything to be original, right down to the typeface used, and punish everything else."



And probably have their heads stuck firmly up their arses!

I agree with J-Ray. People on Threadless won't listen to what you have to say. You seem like a nice guy who wouldn't steal but most people on here won't look that deep into it.

good call J. i agree that that is the focus here.



but that is kind of crappy if i had just traced it and scanned and redrawn it in Illustrator, it would then be ok?

Mind you, does seem to be a blatant re-hash... pity.

there have been a few shirts that have been printed that had clipart images in them and a few other shirts whose artists have taken their style for other artists. its a tricky thing this "origniality".

I think creating "found art" - using/modifying other's work in a new creation is acceptable when the new creation is something very different than the original.



For me, your previous piece, A Joyous Past Time is acceptable because you took the art and created a hilarious concept. Without your latest piece it looks you just colored it - which doesn't do much for the piece as the sky looks really blocky.



Natalie Dee's web comic, Married to Sea, takes clip art (sometimes but not frequently modifies the image) and adds great text to it - thus creating something completely new and original. In that case, using pre-existing imagery is totally acceptable, in my opinion.



All that aside, Threadless voters/customers expect the designs to be original creations so it's easy to see why folks aren't fully supporting your latest sub.

just remember even the idea of being original isn't original.

you've just cut and pasted someone else work and coloured it in... doesn't really show any imagination...



I think people can use other peoples work for instance the 'communist party' t-shirt, but they've added a new dimension their own mark

It's more of a turn off with the voters then anything. I think they feel they've been duped when you're not up front about that kind of stuff. I don't have a problem with it as a designer, but the voters can get nasty about it. I do love those great wood cut illos and would love to use them in some, but not on here.

good point Ed.

i guess it really comes down to what this site is all about and not what works and can be done out in the rest of the world.

man i feel bad about all this. i should have at leas tweeked that images a bit. oh well.

well, while I wont say youre unoriginal for doing so, its absolutely wrong to think that doing this is as original as drawing it all yourself. As it, it is your idea and a small amount of your creation. If you drew it, it would be all your idea and all your creation. I, however, once again, must note that I dont think this means people shouldnt ever take other works and incorporate them into their ideas. Im pretty sure Picasso said great artists steal, and I believe him.

I agree with the majority of what's being said here brenden about originality, and that this probably shouldn't be printed, but don't beat yourself up over it too much. You certainly didn't do anything illegal and you're clearly capable of producing something more original in the future. I think people sometimes tend to overreact to these kinds of things because there have been some artists on here who have maliciously and blatantly ripped off other artists. You clearly didn't do that. I look forward to seeing more of your work in the future!

ok so I am a graphic designer and I use clip art for work to get stuff done... but really... i dont know if I would submit it as my own. I know where you are coming from though.. honestly great graphic designers can rarely draw so I dont really blame you all that much. No matter what you do someone has already done it, right? It is still a really nice layout though. =)

I think its legit to do the work you did as long as its legal, but an artist definitely has more creative control if he/she make the images independently.



Its a major limitation to not be able to make it freehand, both stylistically and conceptually.



I simply find it easier to just stuff myself.

We're a fickle lot, and the mere stigma of plagiarism often bleeds over into non-plagiarized reproductions.

For me its all about creating your own content...take your own photos, do your own illustrations. You can of course use others work to reference your own (for example if you have difficulty capturing body proportions) but to create (and especially to make profit) from using a design (which in my opion) is less your intellectual property than it is someone elses isn't (in my view) the 'right' thing to do.



I have a repeat pattern wallpaper which I created from a figure in a Matisse painting...the paper looks fantastic but I simply wont put it in my portfolio....instead i'm using it as a prototype for a new wallpaper where I will design the chareter 100% myself.



At the end of the day I couldn't be proud of a piece of work which was rooted in a heavy % of my own idea/intellectual property.

Next time, use the clipart as reference and either redraw them slightly tweaked, or trace them but alter them slightly.



Worse things have happened at Threadless.

I agree with Ethemaras. I'm also a graphic designer and you do use things like clipart, RF imagery, fonts etc which you have legit access to to get a job done... that's what designers do. HOWEVER, Threadless is a different kettle of fish which in a way is more about illustration rather than design (although obviously design and layout does come into it)... and basically people expect illustrators to be totally original.

Yeah especially when you have people like Herky, Travis and John2 churning out AMAZING and original pieces.

i think that is point that is often missed, that this is really more about illustration rather then design.

yes, very true. Voters really come here to see great illustrations, but sometimes Great design can over come that.

i dig the layout and the clipart you used and the story it is telling and i $5'd it



that being said, i doubt it is printed (for all the reasons others have stated)

it's sorta like when p diddy remakes a song.

When a designer uses Victorian images to create something new, it can be very effective, like the artist who makes animal collages out of images of machines - that is so cool! One of the problems Brenden had was the voters did not realize the images were old, where many of us did. I did not feel duped, I knew they were old images. So what? It was what he did with them that was the creative effort.



Whether the creative effort was enough to make a winning design? Vote and see.

Ok, it's ok to use cliparts for some designs ( actually, I rather think it is "not_that_bad"), but not here.. What would happen if your design get printed, and then I use the same cliparts and make another one with different composition ? Am I going to be a stealer ?

And another thing, which is far more important:

When they were commenting your design, a lot of people said that they loved a "illustration" and a "style".. Why didn't you said "Hey dudes, illustration isn't mine, but mine is composition".. ? Then it would be ok, and people would scoring a composition and not a illustration...

J-Ray on Mar 05 '07 at 9:31am

I think if you use existing images you've got to improve them and make them your own.



that's the point..

i suppose given a proper heads up would have been a good thing to do, didnt think about it at the time though.



pxlb-

you raise an interseting question. i'm still thinking it through.

BTW, as a *design* I really dig what you've done...

I really dont think clip art is right to use... maybe in your own work and if your up front about it but I don't think anyone should profit off clip art. Even here at art school its really a no- no to use clip art.... why do it when you can create your own work or redraw it at the least. I dont know... but anyways its not like you denied it so no big deal. Just draw things yourself in the future I guess. Or at least redraw them...

it's fine for a design firm, but this is a competition for illustrators show some originality or people will just see straight through it.