Of course everyone is to into drawing polar bears to notice

and penguins

The Earth constantly goes in cycles. The temperature heats up, then cools down and so on. It all depends on how severe the heating up will get in this cycle.

Yup, cycles.

bicycles

Yeah I know. Everyone harps on about Global warming and about how much humans have damaged the earth. And hey, it's true, we haven't probably been the most friendly of inhabitants, but really if even we had done shit all we would be going through this cycle all the same. It's more about the sun and the cycles that it goes through, rather then the greenhouse effect. Don't hear what I'm not saying though.. We have done damage to the planet, sure. But this is way beyond anything that we could do alone..

But you just need a few sciency people to crap on about humans and the greenhouse effect and then general population who really has no idea about much whatsoever thinks that it really is our fault and you get n00bs who go to weird extreme lengths to minimise their carbon footprint and decide that doing so gives them the right to act superior.

I mean reducing your carbon footprint is good an all, but well the earth is going to keep getting warmer folks, so you may as well invest in some cossies!

You under estimate the ability of humans to make difference, were in a period of change so big the only other comparable period of change is the industrial revolution.

The industrial revolution saw people moving into cities, into cramped conditions, rife with diease, polution and social decay but all of these problems were eventually over come thanks to people and technology.

True the problems were experiencing are far large and are different to those the people living through the industrial revolution faced but then our technology is far, far greater and our generation is one incredibly hungry for change (and our ability to do it has dramatically increased because of the net).

I'm not saying its not going to be hard, the fact of the matter is we need a social change because no one is willing to sacrifice their comfort to reduce their carbon foot print at the moment.

we need a goverment to make the difficult descisions (like fixing the price of oil forcing the oil companies to do research), we need to produce food more locally and building regulations must be changed so that all buildings have to be green.

These are things only goverment can enforce the ideas already exist, all you have to do is watch a few lectures on ted.com and the way to save the world is there, we just need the political movement.

I think the Earth actually cooled some lately

Sorry stubby, I did actually have a response for you, but my internet decided it was an ace time to die and by the time I almost had it up again I had to go to class.

I don't think I'm underestimating our ability to make a difference, and I know you said that this is of a greater scale then the industrial revolution, but I have to say that is not the only factor. The situation that we are currently in doesn't really correlate to the industrial revolution at all. The Industrial revolution occurred with everything within our own control, which is not the case with this warming. . You say that our generation is one that is incredibly hungry for change, but I have to say that every generation before us was hungry for change from the generation before them and you should probably not overplay the want for change too much.. (I also do not see how the net has increased our ability for change in the sense that you are talking about. The net does unify people globally but it also brings disunity in communities as people can associate online in a global sense and so thus do not seem to meet locally to help for local causes).

I think that the task at hand (reducing greenhouse gas emissions/decreasing our carbon footprint/etc etc) is indeed hard, but I find that for the most part individuals are underestimating what they can do to contribute to it and similtaneously overestimating the government's ability (and also want/need) to fix the problem. I also believe that the government isn't stepping up enough in regards to this and the pace that they are moving at is quite sluggish, but also that they are overestimating the abilities of individuals (without help from their government) in making a change.


And as I said earlier, we are definitely having an impact on the earth due to our greenhouse gas emissions, etc (I hope this was clear and that you did not mistake that I thought we were not). However I just believe that alot of people (because they were misinformed) are overestimating the effect that this is having on the world (whilst it is important to look at the greenhouse gas emissions and try to decrease our carbon footprint, we also need to keep in mind other factors that are contributing to the change in weather).

Here is a link to an article that talks about Global warming. It's just an article that I googled to make my point, because I have no idea when I first read this//where the best evidence is to support my point, but my point is (and is one that alot of scientists believe) that the earth experiences different weather cycles (that of global warming, and then of global cooling (ice age, mayhaps?)) and that the earth would of been through this before, if not of greater heat - which indicates that yes, whilst we are doing damage to the earth, our damage alone could not of created this.

The paragraphs that I'm going to highlight are below,

"The IPCC (and CSIRO) relied heavily on the Mann paper in coming to their global warming conclusions. The paper's climate curve was nicknamed the "hockey stick": relatively flat from 1550 to 1900, with a sharp rise as greenhouse warming lifted global average temperatures.

But last year, two Canadians, statistics expert Stephen McIntyre and economics professor Ross McKitrick, reexamined Mann's original paper and claimed it was riddled with error. Using the original data (provided to them by Mann) they recompiled the 1400 to 1980 temperature curve.

The pair bent over backwards, in their respective websites, to make their methods and reasoning transparent. The result was a stunning redrawing of the Earth's historical climate graph. The graph, unlike Mann's, showed the Medieval Warming Period of the 15th century was warmer than the 20th century."

I'm still not sure if what you were saying was along the lines of 'no, global warming is a direct result of humans and so we need to start fixing it' or whether you were saying 'yes, I agree, but at the same time, we really need to get our act on'.

Either way that's some more information for people who do believe that it is all our fault to consider.

And lastly, there are already different ways to run cars other then petrol//fuel, but government's are not willing to put money into supporting or pursuing those ideas as they are wanting to make as much profit as possible out of the oil//petrol industry. But I agree with the producing of food more locally and so on, if there was someone who produced organic fruit and veg locally, I would definitely support them, but there isn't, and no one is really willing to go out on a limb there (in most cases I'm assuming).

Either way, the world is screwed for so many reasons, I just hope it survives okay long enough for me to have my life on it :D Yay selfishness!!

Now that is an essay. Sorry guys

i tried to read that accurately enough, but I am slightly tired, so I may have missed something..

yes, the climate was changing in the past as well (see ice ages) and yes there was a warm period in the middle age. but there is no question among scientist (at least well respected ones) that this change is mostly due to humans. the change is too fast and the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is too high that it could be explained in a natural way.

We were discussing the other day with a guy that contributed to the IPPC why there is an article in the media every now and then that debates if humans are really the cause. We didn't know why.. maybe it's because the media has to have some controversity.. but there isn't really a discussion among scientists anymore if humans or not are the cause, the only discussion that is ongoing is how much the temperature will rise and what are possible actions we could take..

sorry if that was too long as well, but I am really getting tired of people claiming to have sources that state that humans are not the cause..

Arguing over whether or not global warming is inevitable and caused by the sun is a moot point. We do not want the planet to heat up. We know this will be a bad thing. We know that even if some warming is caused by the sun, humans are contributing to the warming with our activities and speeding it up drastically. Arguing that warming is inevitable does not give us thge right to help it along. Even if burning oil or coal did not contribute, these are finite resources and we will run out so alternate technologies need to be explored regardless. We need to stop and I would proudly wear a well-designed global warming shirt.

I'm talking about times before humans existed. Not warm periods, not Ice ages. Back when other creatures ruled the earth. The earth has changed DRAMATICALLY (note the caps and the posssible mistake in spelling) the only difference is humans are around to see this one. Something we have never seen before. We can only slow things down, we can't stop it. We should put the money into finding out how to live on the earth that is going to change dramatically instead of trying to prevent the unstopable.

We can't slow it down.

We can only not speed it up.

We are speeding it up. DRAMATICALLY.

We should stop doing that.

^ amen to that.

Also, we should look into making moons and planets habitable.

actually the recorded temperatures show we're cooling
"according to records kept by the United Nations,
global average temperatures peaked during the
El Nino year of 1998 -- and that since 2001, the
temperature trend has declined slightly."

I bet that's why environmentalists has started using
"climate change" more and more lately instead of
global warming.

shakethesheets on May 23 '08 at 11:13am
^ amen to that.

Also, we should look into making moons and planets habitable.

so that we can go and fuck THEM up.

But you are trying to stop something that can't be stoped. Even if Humans did not exist the change would happen. The Earth has gone through many major physical changes in the past like I said prior, and it's only going to happen again.

Can we live up to evolution and adapt to the change? That's the question we should be asking.

You can't blame humans for the change, you can blame humans for helping it out. But the planet isn't fucking up as Daddydom said it's only doing what it has been doing for thousands of years. Yes we have fucked it up to an extent, but the fact that it is changing is not our faults.