its neither a design site or an art site, its a fucking t-shirt site.

The whole name of the game is taking some crap that someone created, seeing if a whole bunch of people like it, and infering from that whether or not a company can make a crapload of money or improve it's image by printing it.

That's it people, there's no magical fucking fairy dust, it's just a bunch of people making money out of something that presumably enjoy. It ain't an art site. And as far as t-shirt sites go, for arguments sake, it'd be in the bottom half as far as artistic value goes.

It makes good t-shirts however.

mike I have both designs side by side on my desktop now and I can honestly say the only things I see that are the same are the eyes. That's it.

i guess it kind of looks like john2's style, but i wouldnt've made the correlation..

it's just a bunch of fat guys with exaggerated features. the style itself isn't unique to john... i think john utilizes that style to create the really bizarre imagery he makes. if this were to use similar concepts as john as well as its execution, then i might relate it.

i think the lines in this are confident enough to suggest this style is natural to the artist, which just might happen to look like john2's style in others' eyes...

It's interesting how no one called this before it got printed. When the money comes, so does the beef.

amen to that tonteau. I don't see John2 in here bitching, so get over it til he does.

no doubt tonteau! its all about the benjamins!

I think that this design is fairly consistent with rwr2's style.

that's all i have to add to this conversation other than my usually snarky comments. :)

thumbs up to Tonteau

well whatever, you guys win.

I'm just sad that a little bit of artistic integrity is too much to ask for around around.

I might be a little behind the conversation now because I am a slow ass typer, but... how can it be a self-fulfilling prophecy if you don't see it as a limitation in any way? It's not something I think about. I only have a handful of subs, and although they vary widely in style, I never set out to emulate anything in particular. Looking back, I can see how my last sub was especially influenced by ladrones, but I don't think it's a black mark on my sub or an insult to him as no one would ever confuse our work. So even though I don't think any of my subs are groundbreaking, I believe that they have a level of uniqueness and value regardless.

You know?

And before anybody says anything, I'm not saying my work is OMG AWESOME. Just saying that I don't think lacking a distinctive style or believing that there are few original ideas anymore makes me (or anyone else) a copycat.

Sonmi always talks good sense and stays on-topic, such a rarity online. Until further notice I agree with everything she says.

P.S. it seems like kind of a low blow to say that people who disagree that this is similar to JOHN2's work are lacking in integrity.

This reminds me of "The Triplets of Belleville"

And Mike, I don't see how this is derivative of John's but obviously that's a personal belief of yours. So I can understand why you'd speak out.

thanks dan

yeah, there's integrity wavering in accusing an artist of ripping a style...

for it to be about money i think john2 would have to have been upset, i think this is rather about recognition in stickymike's case.

in the end though, only john2 should be able to say whether he feels this is a rip or not.

ps. tiphaine: the thing about the self-fulfilling prophecy was a bit of a side-note about how if you believe everything has been done (artwise) you're bound to not try and push the bounderies.

yes, ginette, i understood. i was trying to refute but maybe i didn't explain clearly. since a couple of people have mentioned staying in topic i'll let this one go.

everyone has an opinion, it's certainly more colourful that way.

The fact is john2 didn't draw this and this other guy did, and did a cracking job of it too.

Fat men playing guitar isn't really a sure bet on a site like threadless, and if it were created just to make money then I'd be saying the artist took a big chance.

If it were just for cash there are better things to emulate.

for it to be about money i think john2 would have to have been upset, i think this is rather about recognition in stickymike's case.

-----------

I think it's more that people aren't so fussed about style biting (not that I am accusing anyone of that) if the person implicated doesn't win and get money. There's been ample time for comparisons to be drawn, but the discussion happens now. Essentially it's a question of whether people are happy to overlook "style biting" so long as those involved don't profit?

Woah just saw this blog..seems to be getting a little hot in here.. First of all I don't think this is a rip off at all! But I can see where people are coming from in making that accusation..I do love the rubenesque figure (both sandwich and body). But I'm far from being the only person who draws big figures so I think its completely unfair to call this a rip. With that said, I really do lova ya stickymike and your passion for artists rights. I think you have a great eye for calling out the phonies, I just don't think this is one of them.

ps I really love this illustration.

case closed?

Well said by JOHN2. If you look at the artist's website, he does the same exaggeration on his illos...

wow... I didn't think this would cause so much bullshit. I was just saying how at first I thought it was JOHN2's until I saw the detail.

I also think that other shirt that was printed today looks exactly like V&V.

I'm not saying anything was ripped.. just that they look oddly familiar.

the V&V design, he has another one that looks mildly like wotto's stuff too: here the messenger

p.s. - rwr2 - your illustrations are amazing on your site man.

wotto's or wulla's? because it looks more like the latter to me, but a lot of his other subs have that same style too...

yeah if you look at rwr2's body of work you can see how thisis just his interpretation of fat guys playing metal its in his style with the same (sort of) subject matter as john thats all

looks like wullas style to me......and isn't someone who can draw anystyle pretty talented...i mean i can't do that and i have been drawing all of my life

yeah that guys stuff and mine are similar sonmi but I love his work so I dont care


I for one will say that my style is an amalgamation of a lot of other styles that i really enjoyed and took what I could from them and Im goign to say that most of us out there are teh same whether consciously or not

all this style biting accusations seem to be quite a stretch. It's obvious that rw2 has a style of his own if you look through the work on his site. Is it so crazy that some of his style is similar to someone else's style? Or does everyone's style have to be completely unique and original? I probably wouldn't even go as far to say that this person was inspired by John2. It's just fat people! I don't see the V&V style biting either. Maybe i'm being ignorant, but all of these accusations seem way out of left field.

Ok so sticky mike, fighter for artists rights, blah blah blah. Can anyone fill me in on anything hes actually done for artists besides bitch on the blogs? Heck, even on the blogs, can anyone fill me in to any time hes actually genuinely caught someone stealing off another artist?

all this hostility is killing my buzz

This is a post modern age filled with an overabundance of visual information that starts from your last conscious thought and stretches all the way back to the dawn of civilization.

Such a vast plethora of information has undoubtedly affected all of us in very unique and similar ways. Much of our collective stimuli are universal. Many of us have had similar educations and covered similar learning material. Many of us have been inspired by similar films, literature, social influences, artists, music, experiences, cultures and internet websites.

IN essence we are all energy fields at one with the world around us constantly absorbing information both knowingly and subconsciously. Our experiences and our thoughts shape the people we become, and the entities we aspire to be. We meet like minded individuals at certain points and places along our journeys. Our artistic visions and executions are reflections of our journey, and traces of a familiar collective conscious can be seen in the marks left behind.

To say that this talented interesting designers work is ideologically wrong because it shares arguably similar visual traits to that of another designer seem rather short sighted. To give one person a higher standing than another on the basis of absent or limited factual information seems ludicrous. To limit oneself to a single visual pallet feels disappointing. To place labels on a creation seems pointless. To let knowledge and education place unnecessary boundaries around imagination and possibilities is scary.

One could draw parallels between all artists/designers work in this or any other place. Every artist on here has been influenced by external stimuli as well local stimuli. Every new creation is inherently original, interwoven with traces of the past.

In some cases it could be argued that too much is borrowed from previous creations either in idea form or visually. Their are laws, integrity, social status, social trends and differing view points that determine what is generally acceptable.

There is a little honest feeling in your conscience and a vast imagination for everything else…

Originality is a somewhat indefinable mixture of creativity, the ability to expand on what had come before, and foresight into what will be to come - or the impending appeal. Throughout history, art has been sub-divided into "schools;. The Hudson River Painters were not a bunch of poseurs trying to steal each other's work - they were a group of artists interested in light and nature, shadows and subtle differences in the details of majestic nature brought out by the softer light of morning, or warmer light of evening. Same goes for the broader schools - Impressionism, Surrealism, Jungenstil, Abstract, etc. If you believe that nothing is new,y ou are severely limiting yourself: The same techniques or subject matter in the hands of one artist varies greatly or subtly from that of the others. There have always been certain styles, certain subject matters and certain artists who were/are considered in vogue just as there are always those who, lacking an individual vision, pilfer their vision from others. But a great majority of truly influential and innovative artists find their ideas galvanized in the work of others. To cry "rip off" constantly is to generally misinterpret the nature of art.

Sorry - long! :)

I meant wulla sorry.

i think mike should put on his training bra and stop whining like a lil bitch - stop being soo bitter and do something productive