Threadless T-Shirts - Profile for _Chandra_ - Being Nice 101: An Intro to Scoring Submissions

_Chandra_ aka Chandra has been a member since June 18, 2005, has scored 2226 submissions, giving an average score of 2.79.

Jul 21 '06 by _Chandra_

60 Comments

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Being Nice 101: An Intro to Scoring Submissions

Okay, so there are a few things I really need to get off my chest. I don't even particularly care if anyone reads this. I'm going to go ahead and say it all anyway. In lesson form, for added fun and amusement!

LESSON A: The Myth of Originality Part I: How to Love a Robot

Look. I know we've all seen a lot of robots. And pandas, and giraffes, and drippy hearts. I know. But it's getting to the point where one design that contains something that happened to appear once in another design two years ago is reviled for being OMG unoriginal!! It's become a Threadless-insider status symbol to coolly dismiss "yet another" tapdancing purple unicorn or whatever.

The fact is, everything on this good green Earth has been done at least once before. Pure originality simply does not exist. And here's the thing: if someone did a design of a tapdancing purple unicorn two years ago, and it failed to make the grade, why shouldn't somebody else try again with a better design? Aside from which, there are thousands of old submissions on this board, whose titles don't always reflect their content. We cannot seriously expect new designers to slog their way through every one to see if their idea has been tried before.

And you know what? Sometimes even a very overdone subject can show up in a brilliant new design. Yes. Even a robot. Besides, in the outside world where you will actually be wearing your t-shirt, robots are not an instant Hester-Prynne-like brand of mortal shame.

The lesson here is simple: judge a design based on... *drumroll* its quality and visual effect as a design! Imagine that! Don't go trawling through the Threadless archives trying to make yourself look special by finding that one rare tapdancing purple unicorn and waving it around in everyone's face.

Actually, I take that back. Your homework assignment is to trawl through the Threadless archives to see if you can actually find a tapdancing purple unicorn. Then you can see for yourself just how big a chore this would be for a new designer.

LESSON B: The Myth of Originality Part II: Appropriation is a Valid Approach to Art

Contentious issue, this one. Basically, this is the issue that divides those who have been to art college from those who have not. If you have, you may continue on to Lesson C, because you already know what I'm going to say. If you haven't, please read on.

Stealing is wrong. You're absolutely correct. It's a bad, bad thing, and should be punishable by public humiliation and flogging. However, appropriation and stealing are NOT the same thing. If someone copied the Mona Lisa in detail and tried to pass it off as their own, this would be considered stealing. No question. However, if somebody redid the Mona Lisa in, say, neon hues with the New York skyline in the background, this is what we call appropriation. Lots of very famous artists do it. Lots of big galleries sell it for lots of money.

You, who are presumably not a professional art critic, do not have the authority to decide that something is not "real art" because the founding image is somebody else's. For that matter, anyone who pontificates about what "real" art is and what it isn't, without ever having taken even ONE art theory course, should be publicly humiliated and flogged right alongside those common thieves.

Your homework assignment is to read the following Wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appropriation_art and write me a forty-page annotated report.

LESSON C: Repetition (i.e. Copy & Paste) is a Valid Design Principle

I am going to cyber-kick the shins of whoever next posts a comment along the following lines: "Hey, good design. $5. OH WAIT, you copied and pasted. ZERO!!!!"

All right, so arguably the cyber-kicking of shins is not an effective form of pedagogy. But Good Christ on a pointed stick! Think about what you're saying! Your instinctive reaction to the design was to find it visually pleasing. To be visually pleasing, one could argue, is the whole point of a design. So what difference does it make how the designer reached this goal? If it looks good, it looks good. Period.

One of the reasons, in fact, that it probably looks good is that the designer achieved perfect symmetry or perfect repetition through the use of copy and paste. REPETITION (also known as RHYTHM) is a well-established principle of design: http://char.txa.cornell.edu/language/principl/rhythm/rhythm.htm. (Pay special attention to paragraph 4.) If you don't know what I mean by "principle of design", go back to art school. And stop bashing designers who do know what it means.

As for the argument that cutting and pasting is "lazy", this is so ridiculous and ill-conceived that it makes me want to introduce my cranium to the smooth and cathartic glass of my computer screen. Repeatedly. Here are two scenarios for you:

Scenario #1: Betty spends 14 hours meticulously crafting the image of, say... a tapdancing purple unicorn. She then submits it to Threadless and everybody praises her for her sublime drawing skills. Go, Betty.

Scenario #2: Bob spends 14 hours meticulously crafting his own take on a tapdancing purple unicorn. Then he decides he wants to make a statement about how tapdancing purple unicorns are ubiquitously overtaking the consciousness of Western civilization. So he copies his meticulously crafted unicorn and pastes it all over the t-shirt, creating an interesting pattern through the use of repetition. Sadly, Bob is denounced as a lazy hack by the less-enlightened element of the Threadless community, and in his subsequent depression, falls into a life of drug abuse and petty crime. Too bad for Bob.

Explain to me, dear students, what exactly makes Betty the industrious and Bob the lazy one? Did they not spend equal time creating their original image? Did Bob not, in fact, put more thought and more time into his design?

There are times, yes, when repetition is pointless and adds nothing to an illustration. But your eye will tell you this without you needing to critically examine each element to see if it is, in fact, identical to all the others. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. In capital letters this time!: JUDGE A DESIGN BASED ON ITS VISUAL MERIT, AND NOTHING ELSE. In fact, your homework is to do just that. From now on.

LESSON D: Yes, Everyone IS a Critic

From time to time an argument pops up that runs something along the lines of: "You people are WACK. This design is GOOD for all these numerous tiresome REASONS. Maaaaan, only other DESIGNERS should be allowed to score designs! They're the only ones who really understand how much blood and toil was put into this fragmented stew of cumbersome symbology!"

...Um? What? Let's employ some critical thinking here. Does one's inability to draw somehow impede one's ability to wear t-shirts? Or, for that matter, to evaluate and appreciate a good design? Does Threadless only sell t-shirts to designers? Do architects create buildings for the sole use of other architects? Do musicians play their music only for the ears of other musicians? NO. No, no, no, no, no, no, and a few more "no"s to make the point luminously clear. If the common plebes can't appreciate a design, then guess what? It's probably a bad design.

For that matter, who's to judge what makes a designer and what doesn't, on the basis of this website alone? Anyone could slap together a scribble in Paint and submit it to Threadless. This would not necessarily make them any more a designer than my two-year-old nephew. Conversely, there are those of us who may be quite capable with ink and paper, or paint and canvas, but who haven't yet mastered the complexities (or the financial demands) of a program such as Photoshop. This does not make us any less a designer than anyone who has submitted work here.

Either way, the whole line of reasoning is misguided and pointless. Stop using it.

Your homework is to repeat, in a Zenlike meditational monotone, until you mean it: "I accept that everyone has the right to an opinion. I accept that everyone has the right to an opinion. I accept that everyone has the right to an opinion. ..."

LESSON E: Read the Blasted Comments

Figure 1.1:

...

The word "its" is spelled wrong.
Nice, but you spelled "its" wrong.
I wouldn't wear this, "its" is spelled wrong.
LOL u can't even spell "its" loser
Did you know you spelled "its" wrong?
$5 if you fix the spelling of "its"
You made a mistake, it should be "its"
Dude, you spelled "its" wrong.
Hey, man, you spelled "its" wrong.
Hey, buddy, you spelled "its" wrong.
You spelled "its" wrong
You spelled "its" wrong
You spelled "its" wrong
You spelled "its" wrong
You spelled "its" wrong
You spelled "its" wrong
You spelled "its" wrong
You spelled "its" wrong
You spelled "its" wrong
You spelled "its" wrong
You spelled "its" wrong
You spelled "its" wrong
You spelled "its" wrong
You spelled "its" wrong
You spelled "its" wrong
OMG shoot me, you spelled "its" wrong!!!!

...

Was that annoying? Yes, yes it was. Believe me, I hate misused apostrophes as much as the next person, and probably moreso. I can sympathize. But this does not excuse you for failing to notice that forty-five people before you have ALREADY POINTED IT OUT.

No homework this time. I'm feeling expansive.

LESSON F: Flaming Does Not Make You Important

I really don't know what to say about people who flame. I simply don't understand the impetus behind it. I'm quite certain that never in the history of the Internet has anyone ever proclaimed, "My gosh! You're right, I DO suck balls! I am humbled and edified by the sheer brilliance of your monosyllabic denunciation. I bow before you in grovelling apology and beg you to forgive my very existence in cyberspace."

Honestly. Don't flame. This should be obvious to anyone over the age of twelve.

Your homework is to complete and copy fifty times the following sentence: "If you don't have anything constructive to say, ___ ___ ___."

This concludes your education in the fine art of scoring submissions. If you have actually read this thing in its entirety, congratulations! Now turn off your computer and go do something worthwhile.

__________________________________________

Damn, that felt good.

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xiv on Jul 21 '06 at 7:00pm

i didnt read any of that.

spencekarl on Jul 21 '06 at 7:01pm

i just skimmed through this. i'll read it in full later.

lesson E is funny however. no one reads the previous comments.

bananaphone on Jul 21 '06 at 7:02pm

I am not reading all that, but suffice to say when you've scored as many as I have the "something nice or nothing at all" policy is a good one.

5115 on Jul 21 '06 at 7:03pm

You must get bored... My fingers hurt looking at all that.

i carnt spel on Jul 21 '06 at 7:04pm

when i get aweek of i will read it... i'm sure you put alot of thought into all that:)

croox on Jul 21 '06 at 7:05pm

didn't read ALL of it specially because part 1 seemed a lot like part 2 and 3 but it's good someone finally did this.

I agree with the robot thing. Imean there's that shirt with the robot grabbing for a flower...

kudos for writing all of it

_Chandra_ on Jul 21 '06 at 7:08pm

I type fast.

spencekarl on Jul 21 '06 at 7:15pm

Don't go trawling through the Threadless archives trying to make yourself look special by finding that one rare tapdancing purple unicorn and waving it around in everyone's face.

i agree. although i've done this before...try not to anymore though. i feel bad for people who submit something not knowing that someone else has done it before. and then have to be slapped in the face with it.

amy122166 on Jul 21 '06 at 8:13pm

i don't think i have ever seen a tapdancing purple unicorn :/

_Chandra_ on Jul 21 '06 at 9:19pm

Trust me, they're the next big thing.

ecky_ducky on Jul 21 '06 at 10:05pm

I read that. All of it. It was good.
Yep.

Verdana on Jul 21 '06 at 10:09pm

Unlike the other lazy hacks on here (love you guys), I read it. And enjoyed your rant. Mad props, Chandra. =]

chelly on Jul 21 '06 at 10:14pm

well said! very well indeed.

sonmi on Jul 21 '06 at 10:21pm

good points! i agree with all of them. i was going to say which ones particularly i agree with, but really all of them are quite sound.

soylamorsa on Jul 21 '06 at 10:26pm

I read it, and I thank you for making such logical points. We can only hope that people pay attention to it. And, as a tapdancing purple unicorn myself, I feel honored for my species to be so recognized. ...:)

_Chandra_ on Jul 21 '06 at 10:45pm

Hey, thanks!

Do you think the people who really need to read it are ever going to read it, though? Probably not. *sigh*

Mr. Bax on Jul 21 '06 at 11:19pm

you're so right

MySimulation on Jul 21 '06 at 11:29pm

just read everything & have to agree with all. ;) couldn't said it better myself!

MrDomino on Jul 21 '06 at 11:37pm

There's a certain arrogance to what your saying that I find very distasteful. I agree with some of your points though the examples you use to back up your arguments I consider to be, well, perverse.

While I do think that formal education is very important and enriching, this suggestion that you need to go to art school to be some kind of fabulous artist is very elitist. This is not an "A+B=C" equation.

Lesson C irritates me the most really. I agree that repetition is a valid design principle when it's used for a good reason. "Because it looks good" is not necessarily a good reason. I am of the opinion that design, or all art for that matter, is a series of thought out deliberate decisions. "Design" by definition is a plan. If the repetition does not connect with the central theme of the piece then it is superfluous and unecessary.

Also, Lesson D invalidates every other lesson. If all critics are not designers then logically they would not have to know any of the art school related lessons that you post above that lesson.

starr226 on Jul 21 '06 at 11:45pm

I think, and I could be wrong, that the copy and paste complaint is most often aimed at, say, an image of a skyline where there are only three birds re-used to imitate a sky full of birds. not to create a pattern, but because generally said designs aren't really designed at all, outside of the very, very popular and very, very unnattractive google image search, vector collage. there are times this works, but it works much less when it's blatantly a result of said effect.
I, for one, despise the google image search vector collage form of art for that reason - it's often a result of laziness and lack of attention to detail. not that I'm handing out zeroes for that sort of thing but when it's obvious it's embarrassing. That technique can be done quite beutifully (perudoesitbetter comes to mind), and i suspect you're referencing something else. but i think there are grounds to criticize that - especially since it's fixable towards the next time the artist wants to do it, they simply have to do a *little* more work, or design with the limitation they may face in mind.

>whew<

everything else, you're pretty much dead on. I love, btw, anything more than a paragraph long is looked at as if it were War and Peace or say, Samuel Richardson's Clarissa. AND going along with your portion about not reading the comments and replicating the same sentiment unnesecarilly I got to see "wow that was long) like four times in THESE comments.

I also wish you would've touched on the, albeit semi-unrelated, habit of the First Criticism Is The Right Criticism - where you get to read the exact same, often times not accurate complaint. I know you touched on it in Lesson E with repetitive comments. There's more often than not a complete lack of original thought when it comes to these critiques and vice versa for praising and it's almost always based on the FIRST comment. You've scored 2000 subs, so I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. That actually might be say...Lesson E1.

MrDomino on Jul 21 '06 at 11:51pm

But again, that's part of dealing with the public in general. If 20 people say the same thing then obviously there's something wrong with your design or your not pitching to the right audience. That's the irony of this whole "lesson" process. The people that may actually benefit from these suggestions will both never read this and do not have this "art school" to refresh their memories.

starr226 on Jul 21 '06 at 11:57pm

"If 20 people say the same thing then obviously there's something wrong with your design or your not pitching to the right audience"
ah...you might very well be right, Domino. But I was maybe not specific enough in what I was referring to. I'm not saying a complaint about, say, anatomical inaccuracy. It seems uber common that you'll see the first complaint be "i don't like it on blue" and it will be repeated ad nauseum. Or say a minor detail. These are things that are correctable in the print. they are minor complaints and certainly not worthy of repetition.

MrDomino on Jul 22 '06 at 12:09am

Small detail or not, if everyone says it there is some validity to the argument and you have to decide what that means to the design.

A recent example, my last sub. Many people said to drop the figures I put in the bottom. Now, what I took away from that is two things. First, I did not effectively incorporate those figures into the design. Second, a large portion of the voters did not get what I was trying to say (or in some cases they did but were offended). Now, in the off chance that this were to get printed, I would not remove the mannequins, but revise them to make the message more clear.

There is something to be learned from every form of criticism.

starr226 on Jul 22 '06 at 12:34am

i don't disagree, completely, MD. I want to make sure that's clear. You have made legitimate and reasonable points, I prface this by saying I don't think either of those are applicable to the group you're defending. and, I willingly put forth that if I generalize I'm only talking about a portion of the voters that do what I referenced and then of course only a portion of that.

However, I think, you have to take the critics into account, don't you think? I, honestly and openly, don't value the opinion of 14 year olds spending their time critiqueing things they simply aren't cultured enough to understand or appreciate. And I'm not saying that solely of *my* work. I tend to pander - and pander unsuccessfully at that. Your prior statement about "not pitching to the right audience" is probably most accurate in this regards, than anything else. But I'm not speaking of MY work, I'm speaking in general. I've spent more than 8 years of my life having my work criticized. it's long past being water off a duck's back.

But I see it (the aforementioned comment occurence) repeatedly, and I have the equivalent of two degrees (fine art and graphic design) and had a working minor in art history. I also work in the industry - so fair to say I'm pretty sure I know what *I'm* talking about when it comes to art criticism *most* of the time. that's not bragging, btw, I swear, it's credentials.

Again, I'm not trying to generalize - there are exceptions to when someone has a valid complaint that makes one unhappy. But more often than not it's saying something for the sake of saying something.

No design is perfect - it's not possible, everyone will be able to find something to complain about especially if that's all they want to do. with the majority of the voters that's all they want to do, so you deal with stretches and OFTEN those are things that aren't always accurate or anything more than grabbing at straws.

So I disagree that there is something to learn from every form of criticism, unless an option to that statement is that critics can be complete dumbasses.

also, I apologize for completely derailing this thread.

helo on Jul 22 '06 at 9:03am

excellent points _Chandra_ !

Thanks for putting the time and effort into
helping to improve the quality of the comments
made on designs being scored.

A short summary of your points for those who
don't think they'll read all of it :

Lesson A : Don't attack new or old Threadless designers
for their designs that use an idea already submitted on Threadless since "even a very overdone subject can show
up in a brilliant new design." To scold a new designer
by showing them a previous design similar to theirs
is out of place since we shouldn't assume they are familiar
with all the designs Threadless has put up for scoring.

Lesson B : Don't attack designers for appropriating images,
art, patterns, etc. when it's done correctly. (This requires
everyone to educate themselves on appropriating art) If we
find a designer submitting his/her design with stolen
artwork, then a good ol' smack down is appropriate.

Lesson C : Copy & paste is not inherently evil. It can be
abused, but don't attack a designer out of a knee-jerk
reaction when you detect copy and paste. Take the time
to evaluate if a designer was being lazy or actually had
a purpose in using it.

Lesson D : Comments should be judged by their content
instead of their source. The comments of designers whose
work has been scored on Threadless are not inherently
superior than the comments of those who haven't
submitted a design to Threadless.

Lesson E : Take the time to scan the previous comments
on a design so you don't repeat a point that has already
been well established.

Lesson F : "Don't flame. This should be obvious to anyone
over the age of twelve." "If you don't have anything
constructive to say, then don't say anything. "

What is it that Threadless keeps reminding us to do?

Remember, be nice!

- - - - - - - - - - -
Let me suggest that if you agree with _Chandra_'s points
that you go ahead and read the "reading assignments"
she posted. They are

Art appropriation

Rhythm/repetition in design

hadaloo on Jul 22 '06 at 9:10am

I read it because you are amusing, and mostly right.

.moto. on Jul 22 '06 at 9:22am

yous got some good points there.

whylime on Jul 22 '06 at 10:20am

that was incredibly amusing. thanks for posting. I think pretty much all of this could be summed up in "If your comment is rude or unconstructive dont post it"

tada

sadly, most people dont seem to know what that means

_Chandra_ on Jul 22 '06 at 1:22pm

Thanks for your comments, everyone.

MrDomino - I don't actually believe that every person who scores a design should have to go to art school first. That was a bit of, shall we say, frustrated mudslinging on my part. I stand by my arguments, but I was also trying to have a bit of fun with them, and I'm sorry if that doesn't come across clearly to everyone.

I completely agree that repetition can be superfluous and unnecessary, and I actually pointed that out at the end of Lesson C. And certainly, if a design receives 20 negative comments there's probably a good reason for it. I'm not trying to say that nobody should ever give a bad score, just that some people need to examine their motives more closely.

Starr226 - I don't know, I seem to come across a lot of copy & paste haters who bash a tee after fully admitting that it's a good design at first glance. Again, I definitely agree that c&p can be badly done, but to say a design is good, and then give a zero solely because of c&p, makes no sense to me.

_Chandra_ on Jul 22 '06 at 1:29pm

Oh, and helo, thanks for the summary. Very nicely distilled, and much more tactful as well. *grin*

wullagaru on Jul 22 '06 at 1:39pm

I only knock teh cut and paste when it appears that while it does work it would have worked just as well to have drawn each element individually, or even just change it after pasting just slightly so theres not the symmetrty, but very close to it .. because tehn it gives your eye nice little things to notice when its looking around teh piece.

besides that starr and domino had so very validpoints and your essay was humorus and well thought out

(matthijs) on Jul 22 '06 at 2:46pm

A copy paste example that I don't think is acceptable. But what do you think? The 'artist' claims he has redrawn the whole thing, but so what? He didn't put anything new into the image.

_Chandra_ on Jul 22 '06 at 5:22pm

(You mean an appropriation example, right? 'Cause I'm talking about something different with the copy and paste thing.)

That's a tough one, I'll admit. I'm not the final authority on appropriation by any means, and there's definitely a lot of grey area. Strictly speaking he didn't "steal" that image because it was within public domain. You could also draw parallels with the Jeff Koons String of Puppies case discussed in that Wiki article I posted. But no, my gut reaction is that he didn't do anything original enough with it other than put it on a new medium, and he should have at the very least cited his sources.

On the other hand, there was a submission - I can't remember what it was called - that featured a diagram of a gun taken from a pamphlet of some sort. It was an uncopyrighted image intended for a functional purpose, and the designer altered it, added to it and turned it into a work of art with a specific message. People reamed him for "stealing" the original image but I felt it was an entirely acceptable case of artistic appropriation.

BlameTheSuburbs on Jul 22 '06 at 5:31pm

You make some good points, and have presented a valuable piece of writing, however,

"You, who are presumably not a professional art critic, do not have the authority to decide that something is not "real art" because the founding image is somebody else's. For that matter, anyone who pontificates about what "real" art is and what it isn't, without ever having taken even ONE art theory course, should be publicly humiliated and flogged right alongside those common thieves. "

Lets edit that part out. I'm not allowed to talk about art because I didn't have some old professor tell me what art is. I think that everyone should be able to make that decision on their own, and that it is probably just as absurd to discuss what real art is with a group of people who all have the same art education background.

MrDomino on Jul 22 '06 at 5:41pm

starr226: Well, shall we say that sometimes the lesson to be learned is not to cast pearls before swine.

Chandra: What I think matters in this argument is that you do something unique with those pieces. That you make it your own. This is similar to the clipart discussion that was posted here a few days ago. I'll see if I can dig it up.

_Chandra_ on Jul 22 '06 at 6:30pm

^ Agreed.

BlameTheSuburbs: I definitely never said you're not allowed to "talk about art", and I don't think that's a fair interpretation of my comments. Certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion regarding quality - whether they like something or they don't like it. And, as I commented above, I don't actually believe that people without an art degree should not score or comment on submissions.

On the other hand I do think it's very arrogant for someone to claim that something is not "real" art without ever having studied anything about it, just as it would be arrogant for me to claim, for example, that someone's research wasn't "real" science without ever having studied in their field.

I'll agree, though, that most discussions about what "real" art is and isn't, even amongst those who have studied it, rapidly disintegrate into the realm of the absurd.

herky on Jul 22 '06 at 8:42pm

I think this is probably the most commendable and constructive blog subjects I have ever seen on this site in recent memory. We should suggest to the powers that be (in threadless) to have this material incorporated somewhere within the website (FAQ or etiquette section or new member registration or scoring guidelines/submissions). I believe everyone is entitiled to their own opinions or criticisms about artwork, but a great deal of the "moronic" or "non-constructive" comments on submissions would never be made face to face to the artists themselves. I guess in cyberspace, everyone is 10 ft. tall, 275 lbs. and invincible. :)

surreal_blue on Jul 22 '06 at 9:53pm

I actually read your entire blog. Whether or not it was shear boredom that inspired this thoughtful creation or you were just extremely frustrated, kudos! A section on constructive criticism would make a great addition. Actually, I like what herky said above about including this in a "scoring etiquette", which could be somehow worked into threadless.com.

surreal_blue on Jul 22 '06 at 9:57pm

matthijs) on Jul 22 '06 at 2:46pm
"A copy paste example that I don't think is acceptable. But what do you think? The 'artist' claims he has redrawn the whole thing, but so what? He didn't put anything new into the image"

What artist was that picture referenced from? I gave it a 5 and I have never seen it before....

byebyeblackbird on Jul 22 '06 at 10:46pm

That was lovely. I like your point; if you like the design, vote accordingly- just just based on design snob criteria, Yes?

I love the 'Nothing is completely original'- i tried to explain the same point to my super nonconformist english teacher, but i didn't word it so well.

You = rock.

Skyiscool on Jul 22 '06 at 10:57pm

That was really great, and yes I read it all.

Everyone should read that.

BasicShift on Jul 22 '06 at 11:41pm

I read that all -- and loved almost every inch of it...
where I feel the need to comment is actually in reference to "Lesson D - everyone is a critic." Everyone is not an informed critic is the obvious counterpoint. Perhaps Threadless opening up voting to all is for the greater good -- but it's hard to ignore that even the Threadless staff toss aside pure numerical values at some point.

I think that if there is such a thing a non-constructive comment surely there exists the non-constructive vote corallary - - which would prove the point that some people might need to be weighed differently in voting.

I strongly believe that those in the community willing to submit their own designs should get greater weight than those who don't -- I also feel those with past winning designs whould be weighed even more... if anything it proves the model as the more popular your design style the more power to influence change you acrue.

It's only opinion though... so take it or leave it... just like any vote... huzzah!

114 days later

chelly on Nov 14 '06 at 10:37am

bump