Profile for ph33lth3lov3 - Girl Talk? (boys welcome)

ph33lth3lov3 aka Ali is a 23.18 year old girl, has been a member since June 15, 2005, has scored 907 submissions, giving an average score of 2.91, helping 58 designs get printed.

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Feb 19 '08 by ph33lth3lov3
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Girl Talk? (boys welcome)

okay.

I hope this isn't too personal for the blogs... I want some blatant answers, and I know you threadlessians are really good at that! ^^ And also, that you have quite a bit to say in this department. I've asked my usual (real life!) girl-talk sources and they've been unclear (understandably). I'm trying to gather as much opinion as possible so I can move forward in the best way, and am prepared for the onslaught of the internet.

So... I need some girl talk (boys are welcome to contribute) and possibly strategery. I'm just going to start from the beginning.

I've never had a boyfriend, or for that matter, a romantic interest that went beyond "oh he's cute! ::swoon::" I'm in the dark here.

There's this boy, and we've been all hand-holdy and huggy for the last six weeks, essentially since we met. That's great! But I don't know if I'm being clingy or over-thinking it or what... He doesn't call me, or text, but when we do talk it seems very natural and can go on for hours without us realizing how much time has passed. I can feel something, an attraction and a draw from him, when we are holding hands and stuff that I don't feel with other people. We have a lot in common, and have similar thought processes and senses of humor. It's uncanny how much we have in common, down to the names we gave our pets. He's dabbled in my major while I've dabbled in his, so we can talk about what we are doing and actually understand each other. I feel like I've known him for a long time, and like I'd like to know him for a long time to come (mushy, I know).

He has a lot of work to do (both of us are first-years in college, he's an engineer with lots of science and computer science to keep him busy [I've seen it firsthand, he's not lying]. I'm an art kid with loads of free time this quarter), and our class schedules and homework loads don't always work out, so his time is sparse, but I've become part of the group he hangs out with most regularly and I fit in really well. I was invited to their study groups, even though I'm not in their classes. (I get a lot of work done regardless!) I've become friends with the people in the group, so much that I can call them and hang out without him being there to justify my presence. When I'm around him and his friends, we are sometimes recognized as a couple by people I've just met but who are good friends of his.

The other night, we were talking, and it ended up being very early in the morning (try 5:30 am). We were both really sleepy and worn out, and my dorm is across campus, so he offered for me to stay over (kind of a, "baby it's cold outside" [and dark, and early] thing). He suggested different arrangements, including sleeping in a separate bed or in the same bed, and I said I would rather sleep with him. So I spent the night (just sleeping, folks, but close quarters) in his bed with him. We slept all day, and barring further description, it was really nice. He's honorable. I missed it the next night... I'm no hussy, I wouldn't have done that unless I really felt comfortable with him, and he proposed it so I know he was on board.

So I'm getting to the point (I've been at this point for a while, actually, but knew it was too early) where I want to talk with him about what he thinks "we" are, if there is a "we." Have any of you done this before?
How did your relationship, well, become a relationship? Should I do this? Is this one of those "talks" that you just don't have?
I am scared to be one of those lovesick girls who doesn't know what the hell she's doing and inadvertently screws up something that was perfectly fine or on the road to being something awesome if she took it slow.
Should I back off, or pursue, just see what happens, or what?
Part of me wants to hold back, the other wants to pin him against the wall so he gets the message. He might like that, actually.

I don't want to screw this up, because I really like him. I just... want to know I'm not making up something that doesn't exist. I don't want to set myself up for a bigger fall later on by doing nothing. I want to check that I'm not alone in this situation.

How did you find yourself, well, part of a "we?"

Thoughts please. here are several cookies for reading the whole thing, and giving advice if you have it.

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squatterjohn on Feb 19 '08 at 5:41am

People attacked a pregnant girl last night.

ph33lth3lov3 on Feb 19 '08 at 5:42am

is she alright?

squatterjohn on Feb 19 '08 at 5:45am

Only in the blogs! But you know, some people thought it was "too personal". Frankly I'm of the opinion that if people think something is "too personal" they don't need to read it. It's not helping when someone wants advice to clutter the blog up on a tangent. I'll write some advice for you in my next post here.

trindli on Feb 19 '08 at 5:46am

well, if his friends are referring to you as a couple and he does not object, then I think its save to think that you are a 'we'

Woss on Feb 19 '08 at 5:46am

Stop overthinking.

sillybanana on Feb 19 '08 at 5:47am

margolove on Feb 19 '08 at 5:49am

squatterjohn on Feb 19 '08 at 5:41am

People attacked a pregnant girl last night.

ph33lth3lov3

ph33lth3lov3 on Feb 19 '08 at 5:42am

is she alright?

that just... made me laugh. I mean, I know what you're referring to, it was just amusing.

squatterjohn on Feb 19 '08 at 5:54am

It sounds like you and the boy are "friends". There are times when I've been friends with a girl and then all of a sudden I've thought maybe I like her as something a little more. But I've never acted on that with a friend. In the end I feel a little scared that maybe I'll ruin the friendship if she doesn't feel the same way. It's always far easier when you ask a girl out on a date and romantic intentions are established from the beginning. You don't usually have to sit down and have a talk about what "we" means when a relationship starts out like that.

But it sounds like maybe he's a little like me. Maybe he does like you but in the context of your friendship maybe he won't make a "move" because he thinks you feel differently. Maybe if I had the guts to sit down and have such a talk, I might have found a good relationship out of it. So maybe you should go for it, but I don't know, it's kind of alien to me to begin a relationship like that.

Sorry, I couldn't really give you any good advice from my own personal experience.

ph33lth3lov3 on Feb 19 '08 at 5:55am

well, i don't think this is too personal, but some people might. I thought it was important to put a disclaimer up there, having read the last weeks postings of pregnancies, etc and the backlash associated with them.

I plan to read and weigh the advice/opinions I get in here- you guys aren't dictating my life, and to be fair, I asked for it.

thank you, woss and sillybanana. your advice seems to go hand in hand somewhat!

squatterjohn on Feb 19 '08 at 5:56am

Woss on Feb 19 '08 at 5:46am

Stop overthinking.

Yes! That's my problem! If I could give you any advice it would probably be don't be like me.

Maybe you just need to kiss him?

ph33lth3lov3 on Feb 19 '08 at 6:04am

squatterjohn, that's actually what I'm thinking...

This is, to me, a hazy situation. I feel like if I say something like, "so are we together or what," he might tell me what he's thinking.

He's identified himself as the "nice guy," the guy who gets overlooked and is used to self-sacrifice for other's benefit, and I can see the truth in that. If I tell him my intentions, would he snap out of it?

The weird part about this is that i would like to have him as a friend (really) if being a couple doesn't work out. He's a good guy.

ph33lth3lov3 on Feb 19 '08 at 6:06am

ha, that's what it's leaning towards, squatterjohn/woss.

I'm kicking myself because I had a missed opportunity recently...

I can talk this through all I want, but in real life, I'm a chicken.

::squawk::

Tonteau on Feb 19 '08 at 6:09am

Stop thinking full stop.

squatterjohn on Feb 19 '08 at 6:13am

I think he's a whimp (like me) and needs the girl to initiate such a talk if he's ever to convert a friendship into a boyfriendandgirlfriendship. Try talking to him. This sounds weird but while I was always scared I would freak the girl out if I tried to initiate something, I wouldn't be at all freaked out if she did. So even if he doesn't feel the same, I doubt you'll lose him as a friend if you just put your feelings out there.

disillusioned on Feb 19 '08 at 6:14am

It took me a while to fully grasp this concept, a nightmare relationship and a few decent ones with whom I'm still friends later and I've got a better handle:

Get out of your head. You're almost certainly overthinking it. That's okay; it's the natural reaction when presented with a lot of new options and feelings and when you're not sure what pace what's supposed to take and how things work. It's funny because you start with relationships like that, going through a several-week limbo period until either he makes a move or you push him to and actually *gasp* make out.

And then four years from now (barring religious or other objections) you'll find yourself dating around and sleeping with people who meet your criteria and whom you find honestly very cool within the first three dates without batting an eye about it. Your perspective can easily shift once you realize overinflated expectations and understandings of things are just that: overinflated.

You left out some important details about the sleeping arrangement thing: did you "cuddle" at all? You're hand-holding? Time to take it up a notch.

In the middle of a good evening, with closeness and hand-holding and cuddling stuff, look at him and say "in case you're wondering, now would be an awesome time to kiss me, kthx." Read it off a paper if you have to. If you're doing the hand-holding, sleeping in the same bed thing, he'll be down for it, if a little nervous. (if it's been a couple weeks with no movement, maybe a LOT nervous.)

Read his body language and meet him half way if he looks open to the idea but nervous. Then go for it.

If things break into a relationship, but in general this is good advice, don't *worry* about the clingy thing. Instead, take a step back and let the relationship fall where it should. Still keep your friends. Still have him keep his. Still have your separate time for those friends and for just being alone. And slowly ease into spending as much time as you both want with each other. Don't freak if you don't get a call every day, don't HAVE to spend EVERY minute and meal and waking moment with him and figure out how your schedules meet up and be cool with it, even if it's not a ton of time.

I've dated girls who have full-time, amazingly busy jobs. We speak about every day, sometimes for just 20 minutes, and see each other once or twice a week, or once every two weeks, and it works out. It's never been a "OMG I DON'T GET TO SEE YOU ENOUGH" thing, because it's just how our lives line up and what works for now.

In other words, stop overthinking, don't worry about the "worst" that could happen. He likes ya, he's just nervous and not wanting to rush you and waiting for more signals and not sure where to start. Give him a little boost. And have some fun. :-)

(Just be safe! ;-)

ph33lth3lov3 on Feb 19 '08 at 6:14am

i will stop thinking immediately, tonteau.

ph33lth3lov3 on Feb 19 '08 at 6:26am

thanks disillusioned, 1. for typing all that out, and 2. for saying what i want to hear. ^^ What you said seems to align pretty well to both my current situation and my outlook for later. I think I needed to hear a lot of that, especially from a guy's perspective.

and yeah, we cuddled. ^_^

I was pretty sure I was over-thinking this, half my reasoning for posting the situation here. I needed opinions from people outside my little "insane girl" bubble.

ph33lth3lov3 on Feb 19 '08 at 6:39am

Squatterjohn, woss, tonteau, jebbie, sillybanana, thanks for your advice! My brain was definitely running full steam.

I needed some perspective, and I got some.

I will respect your wisdom ::bows::

And I will fill you in when something goes down.

until then, goodnight!

loserbeech on Feb 19 '08 at 6:47am

I don't know... but this sounds cute. (Unlike pregnancy.)

ph33lth3lov3 on Feb 19 '08 at 6:51am

ah yes, pfg84!

I forgot about the crotch grabbing!

disillusioned on Feb 20 '08 at 11:53pm

Keep us posted, kay.

Mike4507 on Feb 20 '08 at 11:54pm

Sunshine69 on Feb 21 '08 at 12:03am

honey, a guy wouldn't spend all that time holding hands with you and inviting you to sleep in his bed if he wanted to be "just friends" with you. He's probably just as shy and inexperienced as you are.

kayceislost on Feb 21 '08 at 12:06am

what is "we" ?

jenraskopf on Feb 21 '08 at 12:09am

You should bake HIM some big cookies.

One that says "am I your girlfriend?"

and another one that says "you only get the cookies if you say 'yes'"

disillusioned on Feb 21 '08 at 3:45pm

Jen, please be my girlfriend, kthx.

And not just because of my love for cookies... though, om nom nom. :-)

chelly on Feb 21 '08 at 4:21pm

hahaha i was waiting for the perfect advice and then jen's comment came along

Roostersauce on Feb 21 '08 at 4:42pm

Kiss Him

FLCLmonkey on Feb 21 '08 at 4:55pm

Honestly, the kiss is pretty much what needs to happen.

loserbeech on Feb 21 '08 at 5:05pm

staffell on Feb 21 '08 at 5:12pm

whatever will be will be, you'll make mistakes learn from them become a better person and etc blah blah

staffell on Feb 21 '08 at 5:12pm

oh, can't forget the heartbreak part

6 days later

disillusioned on Feb 27 '08 at 7:34pm

So dudez, have you made a move and gotten some yet? Clearly, enough time has elapsed for that to be the case.

ph33lth3lov3 on Feb 29 '08 at 3:56am

okay, so i'm not avoiding you..

things are set in motion.

aka. i'm getting my act together.

none has been gotten as of yet.

6 days later

ph33lth3lov3 on Mar 06 '08 at 7:47am

Okay.

Update!

I talked with Boy. ("So... what are we exactly?")

We are friends, and nothing more. He said he didn't want a relationship right now... I said, "but the thing is, I do."

"I know... and I feel bad because I kind of strung you along..."

...No kidding.

I talked with him for about an hour... He started by saying that he values our friendship too much to risk messing it up with a "higher relationship" (ie. physical relationship). He really stressed how much he values our friendship- how in such a short time we have become really great friends, and by adding another element to our friendship so early could hurt the strength of our bond. He told me about his previous one relationship that left him scarred and afraid to put himself back out there, and I told him about my own story that I don't want to share here. He said he was speaking from previous, horrible experience, and I replied with, "I'm speaking from hopeful optimism." Honestly, I felt as though he should have recovered from his experience, but to each his own. I told him that I couldn't refute his fears, because I, never having been in a relationship, don't really know what I'm like or what I would do as a Girlfriend.

I went into this conversation with the expectation of a letdown, just so I wouldn't be heartbroken later... I told him things would have to change if we were just friends, and that I would miss his touch because I really do like him a lot. I think I said, "We might hold hands at some point later, and we might hug, but I'm never going to be able to hold your hand the same way and the hug will never be the same hug." We can't have the same physical closeness that we had before... not necessarily the personal bubble but not holding hands and definitely not sleeping together ("That was nice though, wasn't it?" he says).

He held my hand the entire time we were talking, and I could tell he was sorry he couldn't say Yes or at least sympathetic that I was bummed. He said, "yes, I'm an idiot, but I don't want to screw this up."

I'm disappointed with the outcome, honestly. I was hoping for a relationship. It's going to take me a little while to change to friend-mode... I still want to feel what I felt while I was with him, but I know I can't or I will be drawn in again. I'm sad because that element is gone, and I told him so. I think subconsciously I was trying to convince him to change his mind through the whole discussion.

HOWEVER:

I now have a really great friend I can be open with. After our talk, we hung out for a few hours, and the crazy "I WANT TO DATE/MAKE OUT WITH YOU" veil of tension was gone... we had a lot of fun. It was... a lot less awkward. And I can tell that we are going to be even better friends as time goes on... Who knows? Maybe later something will happen.... but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm satisfied with myself, because a year ago this never would have happened. I would never have had the courage to even look a boy I liked in the face, let alone talk to him (or dance with him! ::gasp::). I would never have been able to talk to someone else about (potential) relationship problems. I would never have had the courage to talk to the boy about the potential of a relationship... And in my opinion, I came out ahead in the end. I was honest with a friend, and that can't be bad. It's just the transition from "potential mate" to "just buds" that will be difficult... It will happen, but it will be difficult.

Maybe this is some cosmic sign telling me to work on my friendships and myself some more. Like the ladybugs, if you don't look for them, they'll be all over you.

This is a positive experience. I'll just be over there repeating that to myself over and over again.

ph33lth3lov3 on Mar 06 '08 at 7:48am

yeahhhh big fat post.

olie! on Mar 06 '08 at 7:49am

cut off his wii while he's sleeping.

ph33lth3lov3 on Mar 06 '08 at 7:51am

he actually loves his wii, but I'm assuming you're talking about the one attached to him and not the console. I'm disappointed but not vengeful. ^^

squatterjohn on Mar 06 '08 at 7:55am

I guess it worked out ok.

Tell that guy to get over whatever scarred him real quick though.

Woss on Mar 06 '08 at 8:00am

There is not a single psychological issue that a decent blowjob can't fix.

Can I get a high five?

welshalex on Mar 06 '08 at 8:02am

What a shame your first potential love interest turned out to be a sap!

I dont swallow any of that 'don't want to spoil our friendship' malarky. The minute some other fellow comes sniffing around you he'll be all about wanting to be with you. You sound like a nice person, probably too nice for your own good. Nice girls get strung along by lads who dont know what they want. Believe me, when you meet someone who is right for you, there will be none of the 'whats going on' business you were experiencing a few weeks ago.

I think you should forget this guy & go out & use your new found confidence to find someone who'll make you realise romancing can be the easiest thing in the world :)

olie! on Mar 06 '08 at 8:03am

I think you should go make a sandwich, because. . . sandwiches are pretty delicious.

staffell on Mar 06 '08 at 8:05am

you're only going to end up falling for him again and wishing it was more

ph33lth3lov3 on Mar 06 '08 at 8:08am

thanks for the optimism, staffel.

seriously though, i've made some really good mutual friends and to avoid the group because of him would be awkward for many people. I'd rather just surpass the awkward.

ph33lth3lov3 on Mar 07 '08 at 2:50am

bump for night folks who gave me advice and may want an update

trindli on Mar 07 '08 at 2:57am

wow, that sounds really stupid of him and it's sounds lake a lame excuse if you ask me.. sorry..

i would try to back of a little bit, maybe if he does not see you for a while, he realises that he misses you.. if you just keep on behaving like you did before, he will still have everything without having to make a commitment..

maybe you should not listen to me, i am not a really good advise giver..

oh, and i really have to say that i am proud of you to be able to ask him about everything, i never could have done that! If he doesn't want you, just keep looking for somebody else, it's his loss!

ph33lth3lov3 on Mar 07 '08 at 3:27am

I made it clear to him when he first said that we were "friends only" that we were not able to act like we did before... I am pretty strict about that, because I know my own weaknesses and how easily I can get caught up.

...and I could doubt his reasons, or I could just trust that he's telling me the truth because I have no reason to believe otherwise, other than him being a stupid boy. (sorry boys) It is a lame reason, especially since I wanted him so badly to say, ".. but I'll do it anyways." and then be mine, but there's nothing I can do if he doesn't want to take part.

::shrugs::

I durno.

We hung out today in a group. It was only a little awkward, but since we were the only ones who knew about our talk it was probably not noticeable. After a few minutes we were just talking and joking like usual, except I wasn't following him around like a puppy. Instead I spent time getting to know some different people in the group.

I'm leaving for the weekend, so I have a little escape for a few days. That should be nice.

Neon Samurai on Mar 07 '08 at 6:39am

*High fives Woss*

Um, sound like he's not being honest with you. I mean if the pair of you get along as well as you say you do and he was into you then there would be no way that he wouldn't want to step it up.

Beyond anything else no friendship, no matter how awesome, is as fulfilling or as much fun as a relationship with the same person can be (not always is, but can be).

In my experience people only say that they want to protect a friendship when they aren't really that interested but want to protect your feelings.

But maybe I'm a cynical old bugger.

Still congratulations on having the courage to bring it up with him and the maturity to address a (potential) thing openly and honestly.

Better luck next time yeah.

edean on Mar 07 '08 at 7:39am

after reading all your posts it seems to me that he likes you, but at the same time (without knowing what his previous relationship problem was) he probably doesn't want to go through whatever happened again.

everyone has relationship problems now and again.

i agree with neon samurai--props for having the courage to bring it up with him.

ph33lth3lov3 on Mar 07 '08 at 5:05pm

Neon- well, if he isn't interested/into me there's still nothing I can do about it, i can't convince him to like me like that. And I would love to be in a fulfilling relationship... but it's not meant to be with him today, and maybe not ever.

::shrugs::

It'll happen, but with someone else at some other time, I suppose..

but yeah, like you said, now that I've brought it up with him I know it's not so bad to talk about this stuff with people I'm interested in. ::feels confident::

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