Threadless T-Shirts - Profile for helo - I guess the Alumni Forum isn't going away

helo aka Spencer has been a member since June 6, 2005, has scored 62221 submissions, giving an average score of 1.82.

Jul 20 '07 by helo

102 Comments

Watch this

I guess the Alumni Forum isn't going away

I guess this is what it takes to smackdown the
competition. . . to divide the community into
"the rock stars" (them) and the "groupies" (us).

I don't mind the lavender user names, the shields,
the mugs, the mousepads, the exclusive shirt, and
the medals, but the secret golden sandbox for designers
to play in makes me feel that the rest of us get the
designers' scraps when it comes to interaction.

Threadless has every right to do this. There is nothing
inherently wrong about it, but it does change the social
dynamic of the Threadless community. Creating an
elite subgroup in a once open community changes things.

My main concern is that unprinted designers are
less likely to get quality feedback from the printed
designers. I'm not saying quality feedback only comes
from printed designers or that quality feedback will
altogether stop flowing from printed designers - I am
saying that the time spent in the Alumni Forum is
time spent away from the Blog Forum where they
would normally be tempted to help out other designers
who haven't been printed yet.

My second concern is that we ( anyone who is not a
printed designer ) will be seeing less of them ( printed
designers ) in their own blogs and in our blogs. Whether
it's fun fluff blogs or any serious Art/Design blogs I suspect
printed designer appearances will decrease as they spend
some time in the Alumni Forum instead. Notice I didn't go
overboard in making this point. All I said was "...we will
be seeing less of them..."

A question for printed designers :
Does the Alumni Forum allow you to discuss your
non-Threadless projects you're working on - including
projects for competing t-shirt sites? and are you allowed
to mention the competing sites ? If so, then my craving
to see what's going on in there will skyrocket even more
and I'll wish the barrier blocking us out would fall like
the Berlin Wall.

I've given myself some time to chew on my thoughts
before posting this blog and one of the things that has
crossed my mind is that maybe my concerns aren't well
grounded -- that is to say, maybe the Blog Forum's
purpose is not about developing community, but is really
about using a community environment to to help designers
create better designs. I like the idea of the Blog Forum's
purpose being a place for an open community to thrive,
but this is a business and developing better products is
really what's at Threadless' core -- a lack of amazing
designs coming in would make Threadless a museum for
old, great designs. And how would that happen?
If the competition draws away the talent. So if survival
requires competition smackdowns, then it looks like
putting up walls in an open community for an elite group,
" the rockstars ", is one of the maneuvers that puts a
hurtin' on the other guys.

As chelly would say, " them's the beans "

littlem, I guess there will a lot more farting going
on around here now that we have more beans to eat

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Tess Fondie on Jul 20 '07 at 11:32am

The only thing that really irks me about the alumini club is that slogan winners aren't allowed in- its like if your a winner your a winner right? I don't even make slogans- but thats just my feelings.

Not saying that the private chat room sucks as well, especially if they get to talk about other projects on different sites and what not...

I'm wondering why threadless staff hasn't said anything to anyone to smooth things over even a little bit. or maybe they have and i havent seen them

slaterock on Jul 20 '07 at 11:34am

here's the thing. I've got my default view set up so i see EVERYTHING. The alumni blogs are mixed in with the critique blogs are mixed in with general, etc. And I'm sure this is the way most of the alumns have it set up. I still actively participate in the general blogs. I think I've only posted once or twice in the alum blogs.

Stevethegreat on Jul 20 '07 at 11:36am

but....they're better than us.

tesco on Jul 20 '07 at 11:37am

WORD

wullagaru on Jul 20 '07 at 11:39am

same as slate i comment in teh blogs I want to comment in

chelly on Jul 20 '07 at 11:39am

I like the idea of the Blog Forum's
purpose being a place for an open community to thrive,
but this is a business and developing better products is
really what's at Threadless' core

yes. and it was this realization that made me so upset initially. my disappointment was pretty personal and i didn't expect so many people to feel so drastic about it (for AND against).

it still makes me sad because what is coming painfully obvious in the blogs is that certain opinions hold a lot more weight. and that is truely sad because who knows what threadless member is experienced or even published under another psuedonym.

i would love if it turned into a forum where only the staff could post information that only the alumni could see (ie. voting on their special monthly print). but i guess that just isn't enough.

and now, where to go?

skafiend007 on Jul 20 '07 at 11:39am

How about a "club" for people who have voted for X number of designs, since, you know, their votes have determined who is a member of the Alumni club?

just kidding... sort of.

tesco on Jul 20 '07 at 11:40am

but srsly helo, if I could give you my privileges I would, the topics and discussions arent really my thing

Edword on Jul 20 '07 at 11:52am

skafiend007 - that's what I've been saying some kind of reward system for non-designers/ no print designers that a active on the website.

martiandrivein on Jul 20 '07 at 11:54am

I'm sorry but you guys are retarted, thinking that it's some huge rift in the blogging community.... if it were, you'd never see the printed designers on these blogs... end of story.

Legion of Doom on Jul 20 '07 at 11:57am

Im not part of the alumni club, and I don't understand why people feel they have to be a part of everything... its not like anything special happens over there. Its just a blog.

deboraborialis on Jul 20 '07 at 12:03pm

I agree with you Helo. It has devided up, and I feel that we are somehow less than Alumni, like our opinions and votes are not as important. If other people feel this way they will simply leave, or stop voting.

I think designers on the whole, are a pretty decent bunch, and they will still vote/comment on all the subs. I've also still seen loads of them around here, on the normal blogs.

I think the whole thing has just left a bitter taste.

deboraborialis on Jul 20 '07 at 12:04pm

up=us.

pyr4lis on Jul 20 '07 at 12:07pm

I agree with Helo. I tried to say as much but just couldn't phrase it well.

Now I DO NOT think that the designers will all abandon us out here in the blogs. I still see lots and lots of "lavender" names posting in the blogs.

And I do recall someone posting a screenshot of what the Alumni forum lay out was. And it does seem to intergrate well with the rest of the forums.

I'm just sad because even if we arn't missing anything .... it still feels like we are.

I also kinda feel weird about the lavendar names & the sheilds because I think that when people poke through the blogs they are more likely to look in posts made by people with those as apposed to the rest of us.

lol... but "such is life" and that's theb last I'll say about it.

However I do want to point out how much I really love the threadless forums & the bloggers here. I have never felt as in touch with designers (both printed & non-printed) as I have here. Even compared to other specifically art oriented forums. You guys can discuss art & design and not be so serious that you still can't have fun!

slaterock on Jul 20 '07 at 12:07pm

deboraborialis on Jul 20 '07 at 12:03pm
I agree with you Helo. It has devided up, and I feel that we are somehow less than Alumni, like our opinions and votes are not as important. If other people feel this way they will simply leave, or stop voting.

I think designers on the whole, are a pretty decent bunch, and they will still vote/comment on all the subs. I've also still seen loads of them around here, on the normal blogs.

See, those two statements contradict themselves. Everyone says how unfair it is, and that the alumni club is going to divide threadless, yet we're all still, yaking it up on the normal blogs!

Ellsswhere on Jul 20 '07 at 12:14pm

what catches me every time i see one of these blogs is the
"i feel left out" or "we are less than alumni"

this is all in your heads, just because the staff has pink names and they have talks in their office that I don't know about doesn't make them better or worse.

why can't you be happy for us, we finally have a place where I can post a work in progress and when i check back in 5 minutes later its not buried 3 pages back in "my day was terrible" and "check out this new band"

besides, I still appreciate non-alums opinions, but they tend to be "oh this is great" rather than "change this part of the design, try using a red there instead of blue, etc..."

deboraborialis on Jul 20 '07 at 12:15pm

No they don't. I feel that by making the destinction, I am now a second class citizen. Even if the designers still come on these blogs, it doesn't change the fact the Threadless view us as different.

deboraborialis on Jul 20 '07 at 12:17pm

I wonder if you'd feel the same if you weren't in the club.

roboroller on Jul 20 '07 at 12:18pm

this is SO 3 days ago

wullagaru on Jul 20 '07 at 12:19pm

maybe different deb but not less

wullagaru on Jul 20 '07 at 12:21pm

and I can say that I wouldnt care if I were in or not .. bcause as stated before teh other designers had their own little place where they would go and be apart and I was never invited. did I care .. no not really

PacificLight on Jul 20 '07 at 12:22pm

Here is the thing... (I don't care about medals or purple names or any thing else. I don't like the secret tabs though.)

The existence of the secret alumni blogs is a binary thing. It either exists or it doesn't.

So when people say "give it time and see how it pans out" that's giving power to the status quo, the current condition, the existence of the blogs.

Over time, people are supposed to get used to it and get over it. Writing more blogs about it seems hackneyed and beating a dead horse. It's a brilliant thing to say if the position if you support the status quo. I don't.

I'm glad to see more blogs on the subject, because I consider myself a casual blogger, and I don't see that changing much soon. So although I have an opinion, it doesn't hold much weight, and I don't feel THAT strongly about it.

deboraborialis on Jul 20 '07 at 12:24pm

You have more priviledges, so that makes us less. After reading a blog that stated designers comments were worth more, that also made me feel less. It may be in our heads, but I'm pretty fucked off by it.

Having a special blog doesn't bother me, it's just the idea that we, the masses are somehow less important. you still need us to buy the shirts.

Ellsswhere on Jul 20 '07 at 12:24pm

so should i feel left out when black history month comes around? shouldn't we get rid of mothers day and fathers day because some people in this world are infertile.

there are differences in this world, its not the responsibility of the people who have, to always be considerate of the people who don't have. Its your job to suck it up and realize its just a friggin' forum.

helo on Jul 20 '07 at 12:25pm

Ellsswhere,

skaw set up a "Projects" section and he also set
up the ability to customize what shows up when you pull
up the Blog Forum. So now people can't say, "My project
got buried 3 pages back in 5 minutes".

By limiting the opinions on your work to printed designers
you're just reducing the number of people who might leave
well thought out feedback. Why not use the "Project" section
and let both printed designers and everyone else leave comments. Are the light comments that bothersome ?

helo on Jul 20 '07 at 12:28pm

I want some printed designers to answer my question :

Does the Alumni Forum allow you to discuss your
non-Threadless projects you're working on - including
projects for competing t-shirt sites? and are you allowed
to mention the competing sites ?

deboraborialis on Jul 20 '07 at 12:29pm

Ellsswhere- I accept that I cannot be a part of everything. I am not black or a mother, so I cannot really take part in either of the days you mentioned. I don't feel they should be stopped on my account. I did however used to feel a full part of the forum, and now I don't. The goal posts have been changed.

Some of us actually spend a lot of time on here, so it may just be a friggin forum to you, but it's more than that to other people.

wullagaru on Jul 20 '07 at 12:31pm

HELO .... Im not sure I dont think anyones really bothered with too much talk about that stuff as of yet .. there was one blog asking people if they had been contected by a couple different sites but that seems to be the extent of it

slaterock on Jul 20 '07 at 12:31pm

I think the problem here is people are feeling they are entitled to something. The only people really that are legally "entitled" to anything are the printed designers, as they must sign a contract, and are technically providing Threadless with a service.

Threadless provides a community with which anyone may join. They have never stated that if you are an outstanding blogger, you will be rewarded. They have never stated that if you are "almost printed" you will be rewarded. They sell shirts, and reward those people whos designs are selected to be put on those shirts.

Just because I use hotmail a lot, doesn't mean I expect them to treat me any different than someone who doesn't use it that much. The blogs here are just a service provided by Threadless.

helo on Jul 20 '07 at 12:34pm

slaterrock,

My third paragraph :
Threadless has every right to do this. There is nothing
inherently wrong about it, but it does change the social
dynamic of the Threadless community. Creating an
elite subgroup in a once open community changes things.

So obviously the problem is not that I feel entitled.

ladykat on Jul 20 '07 at 12:34pm

... they also never used to state that if you're printed, you'd get a separate forum. What makes you "entitled" to that? It's a perk, not an entitlement.

And it's a perk that has created a divide around here.

PacificLight on Jul 20 '07 at 12:38pm

I don't think people feel "entitled" to be in the club, they just don't like that community in which they have invested time and love into, has been made worse through divisiveness.

It's a grief process.

atomic child on Jul 20 '07 at 12:38pm

i honestly thought that the alumni blog would divide the community at first but now as i have seen in the blogs that nothing has REALLY changed.....and i want a shield...so i better get somethign printed soon

Ellsswhere on Jul 20 '07 at 12:38pm

i don't want to continue this argument... but my initial idea still stands, i want you to understand that nothing has changed. most of the established designers are already a part of another website where we help one another and discuss collabs and what have you.

as you can see, the purple people still hang out here and want to talk to you... i just want you guys to know that we don't feel like we are better than you, so there is no reason for you to feel like you are less than us. yes some have let it get to their heads, but they are monkeys anyways. I love you all and I hope you can understand that threadless is still threadless but now the printed artists have to wear flair. branding us with those logo's, i wear my badge because someone programmed it in the computer, not because i chose to.

slaterock on Jul 20 '07 at 12:38pm

alright, I'm done. You guys win. I'm not sure what you win, but you win.

redoom on Jul 20 '07 at 12:39pm

All this talk of division and such is futile. The company will do what they want as far as the setup of their site goes and what designs they choose to print.

I have only been active here for a short time but I have seen scores of GREAT designs that go wasted because the company or a slice of the community decides they are not worthy. It seems that these people have their own cheering section that notices what they are doing and rallys for them, so in due time desgin gods willing they will be printed. If they aren't though... SCREW IT! there are some fantastic artists on this site shield or no shield. I know feed back is very important but our validation should not come from skinny corp or the threadless artist community

I haven't seen any exodus of printed designer participation in all of the blogs ( they were shieldless once too ) in fact it seems like I see more purple comments.

just my two cents

deboraborialis on Jul 20 '07 at 12:39pm

I do not feel like I have an entitlement to anything, except to not be made to feel like shit. If enough non designers get pissed off and leave the site, then who will buy the shirts that you graciously design for us?

Ellsswhere on Jul 20 '07 at 12:40pm

helo, we already have another forum, and its still being used... you have been left out of that for some time now. but that makes no difference

canadianbeaver on Jul 20 '07 at 12:44pm

This alumni problem is BS. My subs get dropped constantly and most alumni know me very well. Participation is where it's at.

Recognition for printage rocks and I say go for it.

shimala on Jul 20 '07 at 12:45pm

Here's all I'm going to say right now...
21 - The # of active BLOGS in the Alumni section in the last 24 hours
29 - The # of active PAGES OF BLOGS in the last 24 hours

PacificLight on Jul 20 '07 at 12:46pm

Hahaha I don't know why, but what people do in their private time in other sites doesn't bother me...

But I still think creating divisions within this site sucks. Because it's staff sanctioned. Or something.

Yikes, fighting sucks. I'm sorry slate felt outnumbered and went away!

I'm totally done with this thread. :(

chelly on Jul 20 '07 at 12:50pm

i'm pretty sad that people aren't really reading what helo originally posted. also, that my initial response is unclear as to what i was trying to say: it is the realization that the community and business balance that used to be so amazing to me has now been defined by a different means than i originally thought.

and so far, PEOPLE WHO ARE FOR THE ALUMNI PRIVATE BLOGS ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO HAVE STOOPED TO SLINGING NAMES.

anyhoots, this is all coming back around to topics already discussed at quite a length on my previous blog, so i'm outtie.

thanks for taking the time to provide an intelligent point of view on the topic.

Spinachlegs on Jul 20 '07 at 12:51pm

just let it go man!

helo on Jul 20 '07 at 12:51pm

I feel your love, Ellsswhere, but I disagree that
things haven't changed. I'm hoping that Threadless or
someone will think of something so it's a win-win situation
( designers feel special and the community is open again ).

I still can't see how the benefits of a closed/exclusive forum
outweigh the division of an open community.
The benefits : less fluff for designers to wade through
consequences : less oportunities for people to have quality
interaction with each other in both camps

That's why I asked my question. I'm guessing designers
want to be able to let it all hang out ( including discussions
about their work for sites competing with Threadless ) and
Threadless doesn't want that kind of talk in the public arena
so an Alumni Forum became the solution.

littlem on Jul 20 '07 at 12:53pm

everything gives me gas, not just beans.

ahahahhaa

blossompossum on Jul 20 '07 at 12:54pm

I believe this is Part 1 of something I saw... I forgot where, bu hey mentioned something about the printed artists actually picking which shirts aare printed everyweek... The staff that they were going to explain that soon.

Raid71 on Jul 20 '07 at 12:54pm

you aren't missing much in the Alumni Forum, most of the things have been blogged in both, design crits extra

ladykat on Jul 20 '07 at 12:56pm

Craig, a large part of the issue is the appearance of elitism. That will exist even if there's only 1 active blog in the alumni forum.

I agree with pretty much everything Helo, Deb, Chelly, and PacificLight have said.

And one thing that frustrates me is that we have been called "3-year-olds" and "retarded" and other offensive terms for expressing the way we feel about this. We're being told, "Like all changes, people will like it in the end and get back to normal" ... but we're also being criticized for not liking it and not letting the issue drop.

Raid71 on Jul 20 '07 at 12:58pm

This has been a good development of the blogs though:

Categories:
General
Art & Design
Tips & Tricks
Projects

Cactus Pirate Jr. on Jul 20 '07 at 12:58pm

I thought the alumni forum was abolished with the creation of the new sections of the forum (art & design, tips & tricks, projects) because the new sections allowed everyone to participate AND allowed for serious discussion AND a way to filter out the "fluff" blogs.

Everybody wins, right?

Thus I don't see the point of the alumni forums, especially if it garners so much ire.

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