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kevindujour aka Kevin B. is a 23.7 year old boy, has been a member since March 26, 2005, has scored 4379 submissions, giving an average score of 2.03.
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  Nov 30 '05 by kevindujour        39 Comments        Watch this      Share:  Share on facebook    Share on delicious    Share on digg    Share on MySpace    Tweet this    Stumble this    Share this on Kaboodle   



There are some pretty substantial changes made between the submission and the print. I commented in another blog, but the changes are so significant that I wanted to type more. The changes made to the print are different enough that, although I was originally looking forward to purchasing this shirt, I now will not.

The submitted piece is a much better design in terms of the color and size of the argyle pattern. Pertaining to the color, I think that making the image monochromatic was a poor decision, and printing on the navy blue is another problem. There is a black outline of the snake that also defines some of the snake's contours, but printing on a color shirt as dark as navy eliminates the value contrast. Because there is not enough contrast between the black and shirt navy, objects like the tongue, crown, and stars lose their significance and visibility.

One thing I liked about the submission is how well the colors work together. The low intensity (brightness) of the argyle pattern colors matches lower intensity of the shirt while not becoming overly prominent. However, from the submission to the print, the pattern lost that balance by instead having jarring contrasts between the different values of blue diamond shapes, and the brightness of the argyle compared to the shirt. I do not know how Ron Lewis's original colors would look if they were printed, but I imagine they would not be as intense as the blues of the current print. Also, because the argyle pattern has been enlarged, there is an even greater contrast between the darkest and lightest blue diamonds in the argyle pattern. The original submission's argyle pattern was more subtle, and balanced much better with the shape of the snake and the crown.

Does anyone disagree or agree with me?

Other questions:
Why were these changes made to the shirt?
Did Ron Lewis approve of the changes for the print?
Will there be a reprinting at some point in the future with the original colors?
And, although I think it unlikely, would new screens be created with a smaller argyle pattern?

I would really like this shirt, but not in its current incarnation.

OlliRudi
   OlliRudi on Nov 30 '05 at 4:04pm
i agree with you.
Bramish
   Bramish on Nov 30 '05 at 4:07pm
I'm with you in that the original submission looked a hell of a lot better than the print. It was never something I'd've bought, but yesh, the newsizing and colours just don't look good.
Kerrn
Kerrn on Nov 30 '05 at 4:10pm
my first thoughts was that the black ink on navy was a bad choice

-k.
kellybelly223
kellybelly223 on Nov 30 '05 at 4:11pm
Yeah, I thought the original colors were a lot better, and I liked how it was a lot higher up on the shirt. The placement now seems kind of weird. Oh well. Maybe next print?

theoneandonlyshoegazer
theoneandonlyshoegazer on Nov 30 '05 at 4:12pm
I do agree with your comments.
I really liked the submission when I voted on it.

I liked how the colours worked well and were subtle and the small argyle print.

It is pretty in the blues...I just don't like it like I liked the one I voted on.
R to the Sizzle
R to the Sizzle on Nov 30 '05 at 4:13pm
What Ron said:

ronlewis, at 3:23pm on Nov 29, 2005
they made the color change, i apporved it. I also think it is a good color combo to. Apparently sage is a pretty ugly shirt color in real life. The color on the proof template is not quite correct. So, they decided it looked better on navy, and i agree. I am a sucker for a navy shirt,
Azuryx
Azuryx on Nov 30 '05 at 4:16pm
I too agree. I wasn't actually a huge fan of the design in the first place, but I kind of think it looks disgusting as printed now. The submission was at least well designed in most aspects.
kevindujour
   kevindujour on Nov 30 '05 at 4:16pm
I agree with you, kellybelly, that the placement does look awkward now, although we only are given a preview of whatever size (M or L) that the bald man in the preview is wearing. However, going by the preview, the cobra is now attacking the right breast instead of hanging around underneath the collarbone, as in the submission.
shimala
shimala on Nov 30 '05 at 4:16pm
the pattern got all jacked up when we sent it to print and it became a huge nightmare. Ron didn't have a problem with it so we stuck with it.

If/when it's reprinted we'll probably rework the design to the original submission. Time was not on our side this past week and we had a few other issues to deal with at the same time.
shimala
shimala on Nov 30 '05 at 4:17pm
that's a size small in the preview
travis76
   travis76 on Nov 30 '05 at 4:19pm
wow, yeah, i didn't realize the argyle had been enlarged too.
having the dark diamond on the face sucks a little. and now my eyes just focus on the vast light area of the hood, and no longer the action of the face or the energy in the outlining lineweights.
i hadn't even noticed the change, but i knew i wasn't keen about the blue.
jublin
   jublin on Nov 30 '05 at 4:26pm
Oh great. Are you guys trying to convince me not to get this now? I really like it, but if these problems you guys have mentioned were actually fixed in a reprint then I don't want to have to buy it over again.

Oh boy.
shimala
shimala on Nov 30 '05 at 4:27pm
I did say if
Stevethegreat
Stevethegreat on Nov 30 '05 at 4:27pm
you should buy it.........it's a limited edition now......if they fix it then it will become very rare
travis76
   travis76 on Nov 30 '05 at 4:27pm
yeah, shimala kinda just put the brakes on for a lot of people to buy.

the dilemma- if no one buys, it might not get a reprint-

if people buy it up now, they'll be pissed when it's fixed.
travis76
   travis76 on Nov 30 '05 at 4:28pm
yeah right, just like baseball cards and action figures that were errors.
pfft!
jublin
   jublin on Nov 30 '05 at 4:34pm
Well maybe i'll just take one for the team and buy this one. I still really like it. Then, after shimala prints several more of my shirts I'll have some money to spend on the fixed reprint. :)

It's perfect.
jhicks
jhicks on Nov 30 '05 at 10:17pm
I swear, we try to make you happy and then all you guys do is whine when things get changes somewhat...I could serve you a shit sandwhich and people would complain that the stench was not strong enough. I love this shirt and was a proud model, hell I even make a fairly good snake (a better snake than a monkey).
scoutti
   scoutti on Nov 30 '05 at 10:25pm
i like the original version much better
steve_swartz
steve_swartz on Nov 30 '05 at 11:19pm
i like this version better

the obvious goal was to paint a tartan over things. the original design was too small -- it was like a checkerboard.

the design profits from more contrast. it's not a design that wants the lessening of contrast that the blue/grey and tans do. it wants huge contrast between the background and the snake, so you see the tartan better.

why is it that post-printing comments are such nonsense? can you give some principles that tell us why the printed shirt is worse than the original? or are well all in "REVOLUTOIN" mode these days?
scoutti
   scoutti on Nov 30 '05 at 11:22pm
i think the colours used in the printed version are too common
scoutti
   scoutti on Nov 30 '05 at 11:23pm
i really prefer the sublety of the original version
i gave it a $5 hoping to wear that shirt
and it turned out very different.
arexkun
arexkun on Dec 01 '05 at 6:50pm
Does anyone else find it odd that an employee of Skinnycorp is getting mad at us for reacting at a change that was madet, when a good portion of their business is customer appeal?

I like the old design more, but I like the royal blue too. I might buy it, but if they're a sagestone color coming, I might wait out for it.
littlem
littlem on Dec 01 '05 at 6:53pm
well, that's a bummer that not eveyone is happy with the changes, but that's the risk they have to take. Sometimes it's good and sometimes not....I still think it'll do well, though.
Stevethegreat
Stevethegreat on Dec 01 '05 at 6:54pm
aaaah....quit yer bitchin'
jhicks
jhicks on Dec 01 '05 at 7:39pm
Thank you Stevethegreat.

All I am saying to you guys is that sometimes we are forced to make changes. There are variables at work many of you do not see. For instance, sometimes when it comes time to print some designs, our suppliers cannot always provides us with the color of shirt we need or we are already printing a shirt on that color that week. If you notice artists frequently give us different color schemes for a design, providing us with options. When colors or design aspects vary from the original, we confer with the designer that they are pleased with the changes we make. This is true in this case, as craig has pointed out. So when you all vote for a design we assume you take into account changes may be made, especially if the artist provides these options to us. I do not recall if Ron Lewis provided us with variances on color, but be assured that we ok'd the changes with him and we do make an effort to please our customer base. Somtimes we honestly do get frustrated when people adversely react to our effort. But, hey, you can't please everyone.....
littlem
littlem on Dec 01 '05 at 7:41pm
hey, those are my sentiments exactly, only i gave the cliff note version:)
kevindujour
   kevindujour on Dec 01 '05 at 8:03pm
I didn't make this post to complain, and so far I don't think anything I've said has been a bitch. I wanted to make an honest critique of Ron Lewis's design, compare and contrast the two variations, and inquire about the changes. My opinion on the matter is that the alterations made to the design have compromised its integrity and attractiveness.
redsugar
redsugar on Dec 01 '05 at 8:07pm
Sagestone is a weird color. That's the one Parapoppins is on, isn't it? I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call it ugly, but it's odd.
dorkeh
dorkeh on Dec 01 '05 at 8:12pm
I agree.
jhicks
jhicks on Dec 01 '05 at 11:36pm
1) The ultimate decision on a designs "integrity" lies with the artist and no one else. KevinDuJour (flavor of the day, huh?), your crtiique is relevant and understandable. Words do not always accuraely portray sentiment or emotion and what is supposed to be an honest critique can come off as complaints. But remember the final OK came from Ron Lewis and if there is a problem with the ultimate out come, it should be addressed with him since he did not mind the changes.

2) the Parapoppins changes were widely disliked within threadless due to the drastic changes. I personally did not agree with the changes we made, but then agsain the artist took no offense to it that I know of. However, the shirt sold out rather fast...

ok lets kiss and hug and move on now...
shimala
shimala on Dec 02 '05 at 12:41am
whoa now Jake... take a deep breath.

As for Para Poppins we printed the 2nd re-submition that we rejected... https://www.threadless.com/subs/big/52093.gif
Stevethegreat
Stevethegreat on Dec 02 '05 at 12:44am
teehee

you guys are funny when you're upset
ronlewis
   ronlewis on Dec 02 '05 at 4:07pm
all of you know my view on this subject I apporved the the King's Cobra as is. I support threadless in the verison they printed. If there is a faw in the "integrity" of the design I accept all responsiblity. I thank the guys at the shop for making this shirt and all of you for voting on it.

(slipping into a dark room to make out with jhicks)
jhicks
jhicks on Dec 03 '05 at 6:49pm
I (heart) ron....
Stevethegreat
Stevethegreat on Dec 03 '05 at 6:53pm
ewwwwww
kendrick
kendrick on Dec 03 '05 at 6:53pm
i was wondering how it got selected but now i see that the origianal was better
jhicks
jhicks on Dec 04 '05 at 7:42pm
lets let this issue die now...
Stevethegreat
Stevethegreat on Dec 04 '05 at 7:44pm
no......why would we do that?
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